sacred feminine

Phil · 12-18-2006, 02:17 PM

Dan Brown's novel has created a huge outcry over something that has been known for millenia, so what are your views about Magdalene, Pagans, Constantine, the 20 something gospels that were excluded from the bible, etc? etc. etc. ad infinitum,

Spexxvet · 12-18-2006, 02:19 PM

I'm for 'em!

Elspode · 12-18-2006, 02:41 PM

When I read (heard, actually...on audiobook) The DaVinci Code, I couldn't help but think that the whole theory made far more sense than the traditional Christian mythology. In watching the film on Saturday night for the first time, I had the exact same thought, only stronger.

Christianity exterminated the notion of sacred femininity (I'm sorry, I'm not Chrsitian bashing, I'm just spouting known history, here). Now, I'm not saying that it was done to sever Magdalene's sacred inheritance or anything complicit like that, but I do believe the suppression was intentional, designed to focus all spirituality on the new product, i.e., Jesus as Saviour.

In so doing, the Church guaranteed a solidly controllable population, something that despotic governments everywhere have striven to produce. The Divine Female was simply an unfortunate bystander in the quest by the Church to deify Christ for their own purposes. IMHO. YMMV.

Phil, since you're new, you probably haven't picked up on it yet, but my wife and I have a Wiccan coven, so we're probably not the most objective opinions here on this sort of topic.

Phil · 12-18-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

When I read (heard, actually...on audiobook) The DaVinci Code, I couldn't help but think that the whole theory made far more sense than the traditional Christian mythology. In watching the film on Saturday night for the first time, I had the exact same thought, only stronger.

Christianity exterminated the notion of sacred femininity (I'm sorry, I'm not Chrsitian bashing, I'm just spouting known history, here). Now, I'm not saying that it was done to sever Magdalene's sacred inheritance or anything complicit like that, but I do believe the suppression was intentional, designed to focus all spirituality on the new product, i.e., Jesus as Saviour.

In so doing, the Church guaranteed a solidly controllable population, something that despotic governments everywhere have striven to produce. The Divine Female was simply an unfortunate bystander in the quest by the Church to deify Christ for their own purposes. IMHO. YMMV.

Phil, since you're new, you probably haven't picked up on it yet, but my wife and I have a Wiccan coven, so we're probably not the most objective opinions here on this sort of topic.

i'm just a total atheist, but i lean more toward the holy bloodline theory, and my own idea that Jesus was a nice schizophrenic, more than the oppression of the church, which after all, was borne out of a political move by Emperor Constantine.
i have so much to learn!

Elspode · 12-18-2006, 03:12 PM

I think that Jesus' comments about being the Son of God are contextually out of place without *all* of the contemporaneous writings.

We're *all* children of the God...and the Goddess.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-18-2006, 11:39 PM

Lots of speculation around.

12-19-2006, 11:47 AM

Every older (really old) Bible out there has different gospels in it. Thomas has the most in it by the best authority of that spoken by Jesus (but it removes much of the power of the church...hmmmmm, imagine that).
There was no Church, until Rome, ROME, organized it with an apostle that was not who Christ chose to be his successor, that post was stolen by Paul and he sold the church to Rome.
So, yes, I agree... the Gnostics have it much more accurate, as far as the history and far more of the accurate texts, when it comes what is, most likely, the original message and intent of the Church. In many, separate, messages, much of the authority of the church has said as much (then they get sent to "retreats" in Serbia or somewhere like that).

orthodoc · 12-19-2006, 12:38 PM

Hmm. It's interesting how ready non-Christians are to state what is and is not truth and dogma in a faith not their own. Sorry, but everything in this thread that has been said about Christianity is erroneous.

If I were to make a series of erroneous statements about Wicca such as 'it's known history that witches practice satanic rituals, and do black magic, and stick pins in voodoo dolls, and they openly proselytize in schools now', and then say, by the way, I'm not witch-bashing! - I don't think Elspode would be impressed. I wouldn't post statements of 'fact' on this board about a religion that I'm not familiar with.

Rkzen, your 'information' is a mish-mash of fashionable but historically inaccurate late-20th century politically-driven 'scholarship' that embraces a number of heresies. This stuff is commonly taught at colleges and universities (I took a course in it, too!) but you need to read the primary sources. Can't fathom why you're so angry and emphatic (and wrong) about ROME, ... it's sort of hilarious in a scary way, reading your total mis-take on Christian history. I'm not Roman Catholic, but 'that post was stolen by Paul, and he sold the church to Rome' ???

For Christians, Jesus Christ is not a 'product' and was never 'packaged' by the Church; nor is He a 'nice schizophrenic'; He is Lord and Savior, the Son of God. We may not be defining the term 'sacred feminine' in the same way here, but in Orthodox belief, the Theotokos, the Mother of God, is honored beyond all other Saints, and sits at the right hand of God. Additionally there are greatly revered female Saints too numerous to mention, quite a few of whom bear the title 'Equal to the Apostles'. There is no lack of veneration of women, although worship of some abstract concept of 'the feminine' is not and never was a part of Christian belief. Masculine and feminine are concepts within the Church, particularly the idea that the Church is essentially feminine in nature.

I don't imagine anyone wants a lecture on what Christians really believe - but maybe if we each stick to what we know and practice, there won't be so much bs flying around.

12-23-2006, 12:37 PM

Really? So, I'm wrong about the early Bibles and Gospels like the Codex (the oldest in existence and it's contemporaries)?
I went to seminary prep in college BTW... I learned this from the source.

Phil · 12-23-2006, 01:03 PM

"For Christians, Jesus Christ is not a 'product' and was never 'packaged' by the Church; nor is He a 'nice schizophrenic'; He is Lord and Savior, the Son of God. We may not be defining the term 'sacred feminine' in the same way here, but in Orthodox belief, the Theotokos, the Mother of God, is honored beyond all other Saints, and sits at the right hand of God. Additionally there are greatly revered female Saints too numerous to mention, quite a few of whom bear the title 'Equal to the Apostles'. There is no lack of veneration of women, although worship of some abstract concept of 'the feminine' is not and never was a part of Christian belief. Masculine and feminine are concepts within the Church, particularly the idea that the Church is essentially feminine in nature."

that seems like a contradiction seeing as a group of men in red dresses appoint saints as they wish. thousands, and i mean literally, thousands of saints have recieved the "honour" of being one from an elite group of men who still refuse to entertain the idea that a woman could be a priest.

and i hate to burst anyone's bubble, but Christ is a business package.

not only that, but the Christian Catholic organisation is the richest in the world. the biggest offender being of course, the Vatican.

i wonder what the man himself would think about this, after his outrage at the temples being used as markets?!

BigV · 12-26-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoc

Hmm. It's interesting how ready non-Christians are to state what is and is not truth and dogma in a faith not their own. Sorry, but everything in this thread that has been said about Christianity is erroneous.

What is truth? Is truth unchanging law? We both have truths, are mine the same as yours?

Elspode · 12-27-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoc

For Christians, Jesus Christ is not a 'product' and was never 'packaged' by the Church

The key words here being "for Christians"...which is totally cool, as long as they aren't trying to sell their points of view as "Truth". As a Pagan, I know that I cannot know everything, so I believe what I believe, and try to live my life in accordance with those beliefs. You won't find a Wiccan knocking on your door on Saturday morning promising eternal life if you'll just accept the Goddess into your heart.

Quote:

Masculine and feminine are concepts within the Church, particularly the idea that the Church is essentially feminine in nature.

Citation, please. And I would be interested in hearing your position on the debates and votes of Council of Nicaea, and how they have subsequently affected the "truths" which are now held.

Flint · 12-27-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Masculine and feminine are concepts within the Church,
particularly the idea that the Church is essentially feminine in nature.

I'm on the edge of my seat. Please elaborate on this amazing bombshell of a statement.

BigV · 12-27-2006, 11:11 AM

1000 words worth, give or take.

Pie · 12-27-2006, 12:00 PM

Well, in othodoc's defense, the church is referred to as "the bride of Christ"

Quote:

789
The comparison of the Church with the body casts light on the intimate bond between Christ and his Church. Not only is she gathered around him; she is united in him, in his body. Three aspects of the Church as the Body of Christ are to be more specifically noted: the unity of all her members with each other as a result of their union with Christ; Christ as head of the Body; and the Church as bride of Christ.

12-18-2006, 02:17 PM	#1
Phil Hoodoo Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 304	sacred feminine Dan Brown's novel has created a huge outcry over something that has been known for millenia, so what are your views about Magdalene, Pagans, Constantine, the 20 something gospels that were excluded from the bible, etc? etc. etc. ad infinitum,

12-18-2006, 02:19 PM	#2
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	I'm for 'em! __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

12-18-2006, 02:41 PM	#3
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	When I read (heard, actually...on audiobook) The DaVinci Code, I couldn't help but think that the whole theory made far more sense than the traditional Christian mythology. In watching the film on Saturday night for the first time, I had the exact same thought, only stronger. Christianity exterminated the notion of sacred femininity (I'm sorry, I'm not Chrsitian bashing, I'm just spouting known history, here). Now, I'm not saying that it was done to sever Magdalene's sacred inheritance or anything complicit like that, but I do believe the suppression was intentional, designed to focus all spirituality on the new product, i.e., Jesus as Saviour. In so doing, the Church guaranteed a solidly controllable population, something that despotic governments everywhere have striven to produce. The Divine Female was simply an unfortunate bystander in the quest by the Church to deify Christ for their own purposes. IMHO. YMMV. Phil, since you're new, you probably haven't picked up on it yet, but my wife and I have a Wiccan coven, so we're probably not the most objective opinions here on this sort of topic. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

12-18-2006, 03:12 PM	#5
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I think that Jesus' comments about being the Son of God are contextually out of place without all of the contemporaneous writings. We're all children of the God...and the Goddess. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

12-18-2006, 11:39 PM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Lots of speculation around. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-19-2006, 11:47 AM	#7
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Every older (really old) Bible out there has different gospels in it. Thomas has the most in it by the best authority of that spoken by Jesus (but it removes much of the power of the church...hmmmmm, imagine that). There was no Church, until Rome, ROME, organized it with an apostle that was not who Christ chose to be his successor, that post was stolen by Paul and he sold the church to Rome. So, yes, I agree... the Gnostics have it much more accurate, as far as the history and far more of the accurate texts, when it comes what is, most likely, the original message and intent of the Church. In many, separate, messages, much of the authority of the church has said as much (then they get sent to "retreats" in Serbia or somewhere like that).

12-19-2006, 12:38 PM	#8
orthodoc Not Suspicious, Merely Canadian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,774	Hmm. It's interesting how ready non-Christians are to state what is and is not truth and dogma in a faith not their own. Sorry, but everything in this thread that has been said about Christianity is erroneous. If I were to make a series of erroneous statements about Wicca such as 'it's known history that witches practice satanic rituals, and do black magic, and stick pins in voodoo dolls, and they openly proselytize in schools now', and then say, by the way, I'm not witch-bashing! - I don't think Elspode would be impressed. I wouldn't post statements of 'fact' on this board about a religion that I'm not familiar with. Rkzen, your 'information' is a mish-mash of fashionable but historically inaccurate late-20th century politically-driven 'scholarship' that embraces a number of heresies. This stuff is commonly taught at colleges and universities (I took a course in it, too!) but you need to read the primary sources. Can't fathom why you're so angry and emphatic (and wrong) about ROME, ... it's sort of hilarious in a scary way, reading your total mis-take on Christian history. I'm not Roman Catholic, but 'that post was stolen by Paul, and he sold the church to Rome' ??? For Christians, Jesus Christ is not a 'product' and was never 'packaged' by the Church; nor is He a 'nice schizophrenic'; He is Lord and Savior, the Son of God. We may not be defining the term 'sacred feminine' in the same way here, but in Orthodox belief, the Theotokos, the Mother of God, is honored beyond all other Saints, and sits at the right hand of God. Additionally there are greatly revered female Saints too numerous to mention, quite a few of whom bear the title 'Equal to the Apostles'. There is no lack of veneration of women, although worship of some abstract concept of 'the feminine' is not and never was a part of Christian belief. Masculine and feminine are concepts within the Church, particularly the idea that the Church is essentially feminine in nature. I don't imagine anyone wants a lecture on what Christians really believe - but maybe if we each stick to what we know and practice, there won't be so much bs flying around. __________________ The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Ghandi

12-23-2006, 12:37 PM	#9
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Really? So, I'm wrong about the early Bibles and Gospels like the Codex (the oldest in existence and it's contemporaries)? I went to seminary prep in college BTW... I learned this from the source.

12-23-2006, 01:03 PM	#10
Phil Hoodoo Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 304	"For Christians, Jesus Christ is not a 'product' and was never 'packaged' by the Church; nor is He a 'nice schizophrenic'; He is Lord and Savior, the Son of God. We may not be defining the term 'sacred feminine' in the same way here, but in Orthodox belief, the Theotokos, the Mother of God, is honored beyond all other Saints, and sits at the right hand of God. Additionally there are greatly revered female Saints too numerous to mention, quite a few of whom bear the title 'Equal to the Apostles'. There is no lack of veneration of women, although worship of some abstract concept of 'the feminine' is not and never was a part of Christian belief. Masculine and feminine are concepts within the Church, particularly the idea that the Church is essentially feminine in nature." that seems like a contradiction seeing as a group of men in red dresses appoint saints as they wish. thousands, and i mean literally, thousands of saints have recieved the "honour" of being one from an elite group of men who still refuse to entertain the idea that a woman could be a priest. and i hate to burst anyone's bubble, but Christ is a business package. not only that, but the Christian Catholic organisation is the richest in the world. the biggest offender being of course, the Vatican. i wonder what the man himself would think about this, after his outrage at the temples being used as markets?!

12-27-2006, 11:11 AM	#14
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	1000 words worth, give or take. Attached Images __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

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