There they go again.

[TheMercenary]

I am not sure what influence the conflict in Iraq/Afgan has had on this, nor the element of renewed efforts by Russia to flex it muscles in the area, combined with the attempts by Iran to dominate the sphere of influence. But I can't help to believe they are all related.

Israel attacks Gaza, more than 155 reported killed

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...opNews&sp=true

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and combat helicopters pounded the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 155 people in the bloodiest day for Palestinians in more than 20 years of conflict.

Militants in the Gaza Strip responded with rocket salvoes that killed one Israeli man and wounded several others. Both sides said they were prepared to launch wider attacks.

[Undertoad]

In the last week, over 200 missiles have been launched at southern towns in Israel from the Gaza Strip. Two-thirds of children in the town of Sderot suffer from PTSD. Israel wants to show that their disinterest in invading and occupying Gaza again, does not mean Hamas can do whatever they want.

[elSicomoro]

Gaza is so small and so crowded that it's kinda hard to avoid civilian casualties.

I'm usually one of the first people to roll my eyes at Israel's military strikes, but they warned that this one was coming. Plus Hamas refuses to give up the whole "Israel must die" shtick.

[Undertoad]

Over 200 Palestinians have been killed this year by mis-targeted missiles, misfires, or "work accidents" where they blow themselves up building the missiles.

[Aliantha]

I'm sick of this bullshit. I'd like to see someone nuke the whole lot of them. Palestinians and Israelis.

[piercehawkeye45]

War....blah blah blah

Israel occupies Palestine

Palestine gets mad at occupation and attacks Israel.

Israel also responds with an attack on Palestine, killing innocent civilians.

More Palestinians join radical groups and with that comes an increase of attacks on Israel.

Israel elects neo-conservative government who says they will increase security, which consequently, also takes away everyday Palestinian's rights and sometimes restricts them of their needs.

Palestine responds with electing Hamas, who say they will protect Palestine and destroy Israel.


Ah.....circle of love.

[Beestie]

Their hate for each other is what defines them. Take away the hate and there is nothing left. Solve that.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I'm sick of this bullshit. I'd like to see someone nuke the whole lot of them. Palestinians and Israelis.

Iran may be able to help you out with that in just a few short years.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Ah.....circle of love.

Does anyone remember a computer game that was out there a few years ago. There were terrorists walking around. You targeted the terrorists, but there was a time delay. If you hit civilians, other civilians would become angry and become terrorists.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Their hate for each other is what defines them. Take away the hate and there is nothing left. Solve that.

The hate developed from extreme nationalism. Take away Jewish and Islamic nationalism and you have nothing left.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Iran may be able to help you out with that in just a few short years.

Iran will not bomb Israel. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who really doesn't have any leverage anyways, just says that appease his crazy right-winged voters (sound familiar?) and to sound anti-Western. Iran is striving to have influence over its surrounding region, not suicide.

Iran does support the Israeli opposition movements (or terrorist organizations, take your pick) and is extremely anti-Zionist but to jump to nuclear destruction without any sound proof is just logically unsound.

If you can show proof that Ali Khamenei plans to "wipe Israel off the map", present it. Until then, your baseless accusations hold no ground.


*Note that my argument is strictly about Iran nuking Israel.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The hate developed from extreme nationalism. Take away Jewish and Islamic nationalism and you have nothing left.


Iran will not bomb Israel. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who really doesn't have any leverage anyways, just says that appease his crazy right-winged voters (sound familiar?) and to sound anti-Western. Iran is striving to have influence over its surrounding region, not suicide.

Iran does support the Israeli opposition movements (or terrorist organizations, take your pick) and is extremely anti-Zionist but to jump to nuclear destruction without any sound proof is just logically unsound.

If you can show proof that Ali Khamenei plans to "wipe Israel off the map", present it. Until then, your baseless accusations hold no ground.


*Note that my argument is strictly about Iran nuking Israel.

Prove he will not. This is not a baseless accusation, it is a possible senerio that has been discussed and detailed by people with much greater credentials than anyone on this forum. The likelyhood that they will have some form of an atomic weapon in a few short years is high. Iran has a long standing tradition of radical moves in the area and those have been ignored by the ruling clerics repeatedly. So the possibility exists that they will unleash holy hell on Israel and there is little out there to prove otherwise. If you think you have it put it out there.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

This is not a baseless accusation, it is a possible senerio that has been discussed and detailed by people with much greater credentials than anyone on this forum.

The possibility of course exists and it will be discussed by people on all levels but that is not necessarily a strong argument or mean that it has much certainty of happening. People that specialize in defense need to take all scenarios into account and especially worst case scenarios.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The likelyhood that they will have some form of an atomic weapon in a few short years is high. Iran has a long standing tradition of radical moves in the area

I am aware of radical moves by Iran but I have heard of nothing as extreme as killing off two entire countries (Israel and Iran). You can at least make somewhat of a legitimate and logical argument for taking over the embassy in 1979 but no legitimate or logic argument exists for nuking Israel.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

So the possibility exists that they will unleash holy hell on Israel and there is little out there to prove otherwise. If you think you have it put it out there.

You can't ask me to prove that an event will not happen and I realize that I should have used the word evidence instead of proof in my last post. My arguments for Iran not nuking Israel is that Iran is not suicidal, it will hurt their interests in all sectors, and while being radical they have never done anything that extreme and I feel that is much stronger than anything the other side of the table has brought.


If you want to make the argument that Iran should not have atomic weapons, I will not really disagree with that. If Iran does get nuclear weapons, many things will change and those changes are largely subjective based. I just don't believe Iran nuking Israel is a legitimate argument and I feel that many use this as a cover so they can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons because of other reasons.

If there is any country I would be worried about it is Pakistan anyways.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The hate developed from extreme nationalism.

Their mutual hatred predates nationalism by a few thousand years.

[piercehawkeye45]

Since when did nationalism suddenly pop up? Jewish and Islamic nationalism dates back to the start of both religions. Zionism and the recent Islamic phase are just extremes of that nationalism. Islam didn't rapidly spread throughout the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa in the 800s for no reason. The Romans didn't destroy the Jewish temple for no reason either. All Abrahamic religions have and have always had a very nationalistic following.

In order for one group to hate another, nationalism needs to be present. Racism against blacks didn't begin until a white identity was established and valued.

[Elspode]

Hamas keeps poking Israel, they're gonna get smote. And make no mistake, there's little they can do *but* poke. Israel could wipe Gaza off the map in a week, but they don't.

This is not to say that the Palestinians are getting a fair break...they aren't. But you don't poke the giant next door and expect to get away with it indefinitely.

I'm sure the intent is to foment further unrest and support from the other anti-Israeli nations around them. If the Israelis look like big horrible bullies, more money and resources flow into Gaza. The whole thing is probably the Middle-Eastern equivalent of advertising to increase your business income.