![]() |
|
Home Base A starting point, and place for threads don't seem to belong anywhere else |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#1 | ||
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
|
Illinois professor fired
Quote:
Quote:
Some might say the Catholic Church's position is a hate position, and I couldn't argue with that, but to explain it to the students certainly isn't "hate speech". Seems to me, the offended party has no business being in college. ![]() link
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | ||
Read? I only know how to write.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
|
Quote:
This professor apparently does have bias against gays. He also condemns planned parenthood and the reason why (in 1970) you could not trust anyone over 30 - ie the sexual revolution. That revolution really only took sex out of the closet. Read an e-mail he sent to his students. Whereas his biases are obvious, what he is teaching is not. One can easily come to two different conclusions from the same text: Quote:
One factor that clearly is problematic is this Catholic Church nonsense about Natural Moral Law. Propaganda that should not be part of a public discussion of how people act. Natural Moral Law is a concept that is fundamental to Church teachings. Has promoted hate while condoning pedophilia. His teachings promote Natural Moral Law. Without details, we don't know if he criticized the church for that teaching that has been used to promote hate. Those necessary details are not provided. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Snowflake
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
|
So what if you taught a history course about the Holocaust? [/Godwin's Law]
__________________
****************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Slattern of the Swail
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,654
|
/off topic sorta/
I had a prof who got in trouble for teaching HUCK FINN, FFS!, because of the N word in there. FFS!!!!! carry on.
__________________
In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
|
Quote:
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
|
Quote:
And another problem is sheltering little Johnny from reality...
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
|
Here's a snip from the Professor's email, above:
"... NML says that Morality must be a response to REALITY. In other words, sexual acts are only appropriate for people who are complementary, not the same. ..." I'm not at all versed at all in the details of Natural Law or NML, so I'm asking... Does NML actually specifically require "complementary" or is this the Prof's personal interpretation while teaching NML." ? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Master Dwellar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4,412
|
I say you shouldn't teach about "immoral acts" until you've committed them. :-)
__________________
Laugh and the world laughs with you; cry and the world laughs AT you. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Doctor Wtf
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
|
And professor Sheldon can be very complimentary.
Seriously, there is no part of this that does not piss me off. It's all been covered already, though, so Imma leave this dead horse alone.
__________________
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,338
|
I would have taken exception to his example of sex changes being about the sex act.
It clearly is not about sex, it is about mind/body congruity (is that a word? it should be!). All the transsexual people I know agree that they did not undergo the physical and chemical changes so that they could engage in sex; they did it so that their brains and their bodies would be better matched than nature allowed. Sex is only a small part of it. In fact, many transsexuals remain attracted to the same gender that they preferred before their transition. Homosexuality has nothing to do with gender noncomformity. If a transsexual was "straight" before, they will likely be "straight" after. It is believed that those who switch gender preference during their transition were actually attracted to that gender before but repressed that desire to better conform to the roles that were assigned to them at birth. Not that I don't take exception to more than that one topic, but that professor and I would have had to have a debate on the matter of gender and sex right then and there. I don't support firing him however. He was doing what he was hired to do. Anyone taking that course should have known that they would be exposed to Catholic doctrine and thought. If they didn't like it, as I do not, there was room for debate and idea exchange. That is the purpose of higher education. To expose yourself to new ideas and to think about them in depth and detail. You don't have to agree with everything you are taught, you just have to learn to think about things critically. Some people are just not ready to challenge their ideas. Brian
__________________
Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Read? I only know how to write.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
|
Quote:
From the e-mail, there is nothing worthy of firing. But we only have his e-mail. We clearly do not have the entire story. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,338
|
The University will not comment on a personnel matter as a matter of policy.
So we will never know exactly whether or not the student complaint caused the discontinuance of the professor's contract. It seems clear, however, that the University fired the professor for violating their standards of inclusivity with his email to his students. I get that from Ann Mester, an associate dean for the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences. Here is the relevant link. Coming on the heels of the proxy complaint by a student (the actual complainant wishes to remain anonymous), it seems suspicious that the firing is anything other than a pandering to political correctness. I cannot as of now condone the firing, absent other information. The professor has responded this way: Dear Friend: I write this short narrative to explain why I am no longer teaching at the University of Illinois and am not employed by the Diocese of Peoria as of 30 June 2010. First, a little background. I came to Champaign-Urbana in August of 1998 to be employed by the St. John's Catholic Newman Center as a teacher in the courses of the Catholic faith that were then taught through the Center. For seven years I enjoyed a working relationship with Monsignor Stuart W. Swetland, the Director of the Center, who taught alongside me in that program. In 2000, Monsignor Swetland negotiated an agreement with the Department of Religion in which he and I would be adjunct professors in the department and would teach courses on Catholicism. We simultaneously established the Institute of Catholic Thought of which I became the Director and Senior Fellow. The purpose of the Institute was to promote the intellectual heritage of the western world in which Catholicism played such an integral role. Since the Fall of 2001, I have been regularly teaching two courses in the Department of Religion. Since Monsignor Swetland's departure in May of 2006, I have taught the equivalent of a full-time professor every semester, sometimes even more. This past semester (Spring 2010) something occurred which changed an otherwise idyllic academic life. One of the courses I have taught since 2001 has been "Introduction to Catholicism." I think that it is fair to say that many students at the University of Illinois have benefited greatly from this and other teaching I have done. Every semester in that "Introduction" class, I gave two lectures dealing with Catholic Moral positions. One was an explanation of Natural Moral Law as affirmed by the Church. The second was designed as an application of Natural Law Theory to a disputed issue in our society. Most of those semesters, my chosen topic was the moral status of homosexual acts. I would be happy to explain more fully the Catholic Church's position on this matter but, for the sake of brevity, I can summarize it as follows. A homosexual orientation is not morally wrong just as no moral guilt can be assigned to any inclination that a person has. However, based on natural moral law, the Church believes that homosexual acts are contrary to human nature and therefore morally wrong. This is what I taught in my class. This past semester was unusual. In previous years, I had students who might have disagreed with the Church's position but they did so respectfully and without incident. This semester (Spring 2010) I noticed the most vociferous reaction that I have ever had. It seemed out of proportion to all that I had known thus far. To help students understand better how this issue might be decided within competing moral systems, I sent them an email contrasting utilitarianism (in the populist sense) and natural moral law. If we take utilitarianism to be a kind of cost-benefit analysis, I tried to show them that under utilitarianism, homosexual acts would not be considered immoral whereas under natural moral law they would. This is because natural moral law, unlike utilitarianism, judges morality on the basis of the acts themselves. After the semester was over, I was called into the office of Robert McKim, the chairman of the Department of Religion, who was in possession of this email. I was told that someone (I presume one of my students) sent this email to the Office of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgendered Concerns at the University. It was apparently sent to administrators in the University of Illinois and then forwarded on to Professor McKim. I was told that I would no longer be able to teach in the Department of Religion. Professor McKim and I discussed the contents of the email and he was quite insistent that my days of teaching in the department were over. I offered that it would be more just to ask me not to address the subject of homosexuality in my class. In fact, the other class I regularly taught (Modern Catholic Thought) never dealt with that subject at all. I also averred that to dismiss me for teaching the Catholic position in a class on Catholicism was a violation of academic freedom and my first amendment rights of free speech. This made no difference. After that conversation and a couple of emails, Professor McKim insisted that this decision to dismiss me stood firm. I then consulted with our Diocesan lawyer, Mrs. Patricia Gibson, to see if the St. John's Newman Center could sue the university for breach of contract. Mrs. Gibson, kind in spirit and articulate as regards the law, told me that unfortunately the university had made very careful provisions to protect itself and so would not be liable in a law suit. I am still consulting with other lawyers about possible legal action on the grounds of the first amendment. Then Monsignor Gregory Ketcham, the current Director of the St. John's Catholic Newman Center and my superior, informed me that the Center would not be able to continue employing me since there was no longer any teaching for me to do. I then reiterated what I had mentioned to him the day before. I suggested that we work together to have courses on Catholicism taught at the Newman Center that could be accredited by a Catholic university and that could be transferred into the University of Illinois for credit. In this way, the students whom we had been called to serve could continue to be instructed in the Catholic Faith. I told him in fact that I had once had conversations with professors in Catholic universities who were willing to make such arrangements. Monsignor Ketcham said that he had no interest in such a plan. Thus, after more than sixty years, students at the University of Illinois will have no classes on Catholicism available to them. If the Department of Religion continues to offer the courses I taught, I have no idea how accurately Catholicism will be represented. I know this subject well enough to say it can be easily distorted. I have tried in this document to portray in a straightforward manner what happened. I also am preparing another document giving my own interpretation of all these events. If you are interested in that, or you just want to be informed as things progress, please contact me by email: kenneth.howell1952@gmail.com I look back at the twelve years I have spent in this position with memories of wonderful times with my students and friends with whom I have labored. It has been a time of great growth and joy. I thank God from the bottom of my heart. I don't know what the future holds but I do know Him who holds it. He is faithful and can be trusted. Sincerely, Kenneth J. Howell
__________________
Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous Last edited by BrianR; 07-12-2010 at 11:29 AM. Reason: added response |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,401
|
Ahhh I see it now -
Quote:
Yes this is an assumption, but to fire a professor after 12 years without having some concrete proof of a serious indiscretion or blatant incompetence is surprising.
__________________
"like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
|
The argument he made shows a high level of blatant incompetence with respect to logic, but he wasn't teaching logic. Maybe he could have avoided divisive hot-button issues in an "Intro to Catholisism" class in a non-seminary, but professors should be allowed to do so, for the most part.
He veered a bit from presenting the facts about Catholicism to a bit of prostelyzation in the email tw posted, in the "REAL" bit in the last two paragraphs. There's no reason to suppose that Catholics have a particularly "thorough understanding of natural reality" that gives any weight to what they think of as "Natural Moral Theory". However, I don't think its enough, on its own, to justify firing him. (It may not be "on its own", though)
__________________
_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|