How can a Pepto-Pink toy line be anything but evil?

darclauz · 01-05-2004, 11:00 AM

Barbie.

I hate her.
I hate everything she stands for.

I hate that "gotta be vain" attitude that she promotes in kids. The dress-up, make-up, gotta-have-STUFF attitude.

I told my b*tch sisterinlaw, with the psycho undisciplined kids and the poison streak, that freddie is not allowed to have barbie. that's it.......... no barbie stuff. there's a crapload of toys out there that do NOT promote surface vanity and unhealthy ideals in very young children.

so the first christmas we had freddie, my sis in law got her a "Kelly" doll...barbie name. i let that go, because it's not one of those primp-and-crap dolls...it's just a little figure that freddie has conversations with.

so THIS YEAR, just because EVERY single family event has to be about how melissa is the queen bitch, she got freddie a dress-up-puppy (BARBIE) in her own travelling suitcase of feathered shoes and leather vests. i was FURIOUS. (in fact, to avoid punching her in the face, i went into the bathroom, shut the door, and then my body was so tense and angry that i couldn't even pee.) then SHE stormed out of the room, saying, she'd get me the receipt and i could just take it back.

the next day, i sat down and explained to them that i wanted freddie to learn to be an inside person before she became an outside person. i said, "it's like nic and guns. i know you don't want him to have guns, in that same way, i don't want her to have barbies till she's older."

so after having a smug, i'll-show-you look on her face when freddie opened it, the next day she said she DIDN'T EVEN know it was barbie till she got it home, in spite of the fact that it was pepto-pink.

all to say. i can't stand melissa. and i hate barbie, too.

darclauz · 01-05-2004, 11:02 AM

BTW, melissa didn't get me the receipt. the next day, when i asked for it, she claimed it was with her mother's stuff (a lie). that wouldn't be a problem, except she takes EVERYTHING back. in fact, she's banned from taking stuff back to walmart. they don't accept returns from her...how trailer trash is THAT????????????

juju · 01-05-2004, 11:44 AM

I know how you feel, and I've had similar scenarios play out in my head. The problem is, I cannot control what people give or say to Sarah. I can only deny Sarah visits with that person in the future.

I mean, you can take the Barbie away, but then you're the criminal, and you've done just as much if not more damage than the Barbie would have.

I've decided that I simply cannot control other people. I can only control whether or not they interact with Sarah. And even then, Kathy has to agree with me.

FileNotFound · 01-05-2004, 01:07 PM

Erm don't you think you're horribly overreacting?

It's just a doll.

What in the western culture does NOT promote the : "dress-up, make-up, gotta-have-STUFF attitude"

I bet even right now your daughter's idea of a "successful" woman is one who is dessed up, with make up, and has plenty of stuff. I bet that she craves to grow up to have stuff, be dressed up and have make up.

Having or not havign a babie will not change any of that.

I grew up in Russia with almost no toys of any kind most of the time, yet all my life I've desired to quire a vast array of stuff and things to dress up in. (List of toys I had: 2 plush toys.(6 inch bear like but not bears), 40 piece 'lego' ripoff, 2 matchbox cars (shit ones made in Ukraine), various plastic soldiers, toy gun that looked like an AK. Thats it.)

What exactly is so sinister about wanting "stuff"?

Don't even start me on the toy guns...When I didn't have a toy gun, I used a stick and said "BANG BANG BANG". I did so extensivley. My favourite toy was an AK style gun which made a clicking sound. I went to many firing ranges with airguns in Russia since the age of 6 (if not way less. I know once they had to get a chair for me to stand and reach the counter) and I was damn accurate (8/10 or better) . (My grandfather was in the army taught me to aim and took me to one at every chance he got.). To date I have yet to fire a real firearm, own one, or desire any of these things.

Toys do not make people hookers, killers, bad mothers, good mothers, christians, satanists, rocket scientists or drug addicts. They can help develop abilities, but it's what you tell your kids and who their friends are that shapes them. Sure your kid might learn to hold a gun, aim a gun etc if he has a toy gun, but it won't make him want to kill people - just make him not miss if he chose to do so.

No I do not have kids. Yes the above is my own opinion based on my experience and my life. Rant off..

juju · 01-05-2004, 01:25 PM

I don't think its overreacting. Her emotions do have value and worth. It's just important to eventually remember what solves things and what doesn't.

It's like if you were writing a computer program, and people kept coming into your house and randomly changing lines without your consent, adding bugs, making features not work, adding obnoxious features you don't want, etc. You'd probably be pretty pissed off, too.

FileNotFound · 01-05-2004, 02:01 PM

Maybe. But I probably wouldn't have a bladder seizing fit over it.

Plus I think it's misguided at best to assume that the child sees the babie not as 'just a doll' but as the sum of all that is evil that promotes 'unhealthy' ideals, vanity and the desire to posses stuff.

Not getting a kid a toy they want just makes you the stingy bastard of a parent in the eyes of the kid and they eventualy get the toy one way or another.

darclauz · 01-05-2004, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound
Maybe. But I probably wouldn't have a bladder seizing fit over it.

Plus I think it's misguided at best to assume that the child sees the babie not as 'just a doll' but as the sum of all that is evil that promotes 'unhealthy' ideals, vanity and the desire to posses stuff.

Not getting a kid a toy they want just makes you the stingy bastard of a parent in the eyes of the kid and they eventualy get the toy one way or another.

for me the issue-- the bladder issue, if you will-- was more than the barbie, i guess.

my daughter is two...she will be three in a couple of weeks. and no, sooner or later, i probably won't object, but right now, while she's this young, we're still building ideals that we want her to have. but for me, the point was-- i set rules for her, and asked my family to follow them, and melissa disregarded them willfully, and with a smirk on her face that DARED me to do anything about it. THAT i object to.

the barbie thing is just something that i don't want for her right now in her life. and since she's only two, i get to make those rules!!!!!!!!! she doesn't want guns given to her kid..that's her right. she gets to set her rules for her kid, and she would be angry if i disregarded them. however -- i wouldn't do that. it's all about respect, and about the VERY childish behavior about taking a two year old's birthday party to do something bitchy, just because you can.

but i can't beat melissa with a stick...so i hate barbie.

SteveDallas · 01-05-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound

Not getting a kid a toy they want just makes you the stingy bastard of a parent in the eyes of the kid and they eventualy get the toy one way or another.

Part a) is true but doesn't bother me. I'm not in business to make friends with the kids. Part of the lesson is that they don't get everything they won't and when they don't, it's not always for reasons they understand or agree with.

Part b) may be true, but then they've gotten it without parental approval and even if you can't prevent them from getting it, you can avoid helping them get it, and make sure they understand why you disapprove.

For the record I would just as soon not have Barbies around the house. (Partly for philosophical reasons, partly because I hate stepping on all the damned little pieces.) But Mrs. Dallas thinks it's harmless ("I had em when I was little"), so who am I to argue? (It should be noted that she did put her foot down at my proposed purchase of an Anna Kournikova action figure for myself.)

juju · 01-05-2004, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darclauz
but for me, the point was-- i set rules for her, and asked my family to follow them, and melissa disregarded them willfully, and with a smirk on her face that DARED me to do anything about it. THAT i object to.

That's the point, unfortunately. You can't set rules for your family to follow. You simply have no way to enforce them. You can only tell your daughter what to do.

When I went through this, I naively just expected them to cooperate out of respect. HA! When has my familiy ever respected me?

darclauz · 01-05-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound

Not getting a kid a toy they want just makes you the stingy bastard of a parent in the eyes of the kid and they eventualy get the toy one way or another.

and ya know... the thing i am specifically trying to do is raise the kind of kid that DOESN'T translate "can't have that toy" into "stingy bastard parent". so i guess if i hit that then i've already messed up.

darclauz · 01-05-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
That's the point, unfortunately. You can't set rules for your family to follow. You simply have no way to enforce them. You can only tell your daughter what to do.

not exactly. i tell my family...if you get her this, she wont be able to keep it. then they give it to her, and she doesn't get to keep it. when she wants to know why, i tell her... it's because so-and-so didn't listen to what i said. they know you can't have it, and they do it anyway.

it backfires on them sooner or later. IF i had a family member who continually violated my tenets on my child's life, that member would simply not have access to my child -- or me -- any longer. there's no other way to deal with it, IMO.

you can let people destroy what you try to do, or you can be firm, be kind, and stand by your convictions.

i will stand.

Beestie · 01-05-2004, 02:44 PM

At this point, I'd tell melissa not to give freddie anything anymore - I'm sure your brother doesn't like being in the middle like he is. And/Or you can buy something for freddie and say its from her.

If freddie grows up fine or not fine has more to do with the example you set and the things you teach her.

Its even thinkable that you should have let freddie keep the barbie as a case in point to all that is wrong with barbie. You will need to have that chat sooner or later as the message of barbie is pervasive (TV, movies, cereal boxes, video games, etc.) You will not be successful in insulating freddie from these things so the best thing is to "poison the well" w/r to the message they send. As freddie's parent, you have the upper hand (for a few more years at least) in the battle for her spirit - use the time wisely by instilling the correct attitudes about bad things and not by pretending there are no bad things (the "insulate" strategy).

I have a daughter who just turned three and her mother and I have agreed to let her have "barbie" stuff in limited quantity. We just stress (but not overstress) that barbie is not real and that nobody really looks like that - barbie is a cartoon and that people are beautiful for what's in their heart). I hope we are doing the right thing.

juju · 01-05-2004, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darclauz
not exactly. i tell my family...if you get her this, she wont be able to keep it. then they give it to her, and she doesn't get to keep it. when she wants to know why, i tell her... it's because so-and-so didn't listen to what i said. they know you can't have it, and they do it anyway.

it backfires on them sooner or later. IF i had a family member who continually violated my tenets on my child's life, that member would simply not have access to my child -- or me -- any longer. there's no other way to deal with it, IMO.

Yes, that is what I would do, too. It still falls within my stated philosophy, because if you take the toy away, you are then exerting control over the child, and not your brother/sister.

Power is an important part of life. Know where you have it, and where you don't. With that said, I'm still trying to learn this myself.

Griff · 01-05-2004, 03:02 PM

How can a Pepto-Pink toy line be anything but evil?

It is the Wests answer to the burka. American women have the ability and right to make stupid decisions about how the world perceives them. I admire your tough stance, good luck poisoning the well, but be careful to avoid the trap of Barbie becoming the forbidden fruit that Freddie desires. [just]Oh yah get lots of armaments for Melissas kid.[/kidding] We run a Barbie free house here as well. The kids were programmed anti-Barbie long before the first one arrived, she was given the contempt she deserves.

blue · 01-05-2004, 03:02 PM

Let me guess, type A personality? ;-)

Your story made me laugh.

But seriously, the bitch should respect your wishes.

01-05-2004, 11:00 AM	#1
darclauz Breathing into a paper bag Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 334	How can a Pepto-Pink toy line be anything but evil? Barbie. I hate her. I hate everything she stands for. I hate that "gotta be vain" attitude that she promotes in kids. The dress-up, make-up, gotta-have-STUFF attitude. I told my b*tch sisterinlaw, with the psycho undisciplined kids and the poison streak, that freddie is not allowed to have barbie. that's it.......... no barbie stuff. there's a crapload of toys out there that do NOT promote surface vanity and unhealthy ideals in very young children. so the first christmas we had freddie, my sis in law got her a "Kelly" doll...barbie name. i let that go, because it's not one of those primp-and-crap dolls...it's just a little figure that freddie has conversations with. so THIS YEAR, just because EVERY single family event has to be about how melissa is the queen bitch, she got freddie a dress-up-puppy (BARBIE) in her own travelling suitcase of feathered shoes and leather vests. i was FURIOUS. (in fact, to avoid punching her in the face, i went into the bathroom, shut the door, and then my body was so tense and angry that i couldn't even pee.) then SHE stormed out of the room, saying, she'd get me the receipt and i could just take it back. the next day, i sat down and explained to them that i wanted freddie to learn to be an inside person before she became an outside person. i said, "it's like nic and guns. i know you don't want him to have guns, in that same way, i don't want her to have barbies till she's older." so after having a smug, i'll-show-you look on her face when freddie opened it, the next day she said she DIDN'T EVEN know it was barbie till she got it home, in spite of the fact that it was pepto-pink. all to say. i can't stand melissa. and i hate barbie, too. __________________ Taking up smoking to lose weight.

01-05-2004, 11:02 AM	#2
darclauz Breathing into a paper bag Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 334	post script BTW, melissa didn't get me the receipt. the next day, when i asked for it, she claimed it was with her mother's stuff (a lie). that wouldn't be a problem, except she takes EVERYTHING back. in fact, she's banned from taking stuff back to walmart. they don't accept returns from her...how trailer trash is THAT???????????? __________________ Taking up smoking to lose weight.

01-05-2004, 01:07 PM	#4
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	Erm don't you think you're horribly overreacting? It's just a doll. What in the western culture does NOT promote the : "dress-up, make-up, gotta-have-STUFF attitude" I bet even right now your daughter's idea of a "successful" woman is one who is dessed up, with make up, and has plenty of stuff. I bet that she craves to grow up to have stuff, be dressed up and have make up. Having or not havign a babie will not change any of that. I grew up in Russia with almost no toys of any kind most of the time, yet all my life I've desired to quire a vast array of stuff and things to dress up in. (List of toys I had: 2 plush toys.(6 inch bear like but not bears), 40 piece 'lego' ripoff, 2 matchbox cars (shit ones made in Ukraine), various plastic soldiers, toy gun that looked like an AK. Thats it.) What exactly is so sinister about wanting "stuff"? Don't even start me on the toy guns...When I didn't have a toy gun, I used a stick and said "BANG BANG BANG". I did so extensivley. My favourite toy was an AK style gun which made a clicking sound. I went to many firing ranges with airguns in Russia since the age of 6 (if not way less. I know once they had to get a chair for me to stand and reach the counter) and I was damn accurate (8/10 or better) . (My grandfather was in the army taught me to aim and took me to one at every chance he got.). To date I have yet to fire a real firearm, own one, or desire any of these things. Toys do not make people hookers, killers, bad mothers, good mothers, christians, satanists, rocket scientists or drug addicts. They can help develop abilities, but it's what you tell your kids and who their friends are that shapes them. Sure your kid might learn to hold a gun, aim a gun etc if he has a toy gun, but it won't make him want to kill people - just make him not miss if he chose to do so. No I do not have kids. Yes the above is my own opinion based on my experience and my life. Rant off.. __________________ This is a rat. \|This is a hamster.\| This is a chipmunk.\| This is a Sheep Rider.

01-05-2004, 02:01 PM	#6
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	Maybe. But I probably wouldn't have a bladder seizing fit over it. Plus I think it's misguided at best to assume that the child sees the babie not as 'just a doll' but as the sum of all that is evil that promotes 'unhealthy' ideals, vanity and the desire to posses stuff. Not getting a kid a toy they want just makes you the stingy bastard of a parent in the eyes of the kid and they eventualy get the toy one way or another. __________________ This is a rat. \|This is a hamster.\| This is a chipmunk.\| This is a Sheep Rider.

01-05-2004, 02:44 PM	#12
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	At this point, I'd tell melissa not to give freddie anything anymore - I'm sure your brother doesn't like being in the middle like he is. And/Or you can buy something for freddie and say its from her. If freddie grows up fine or not fine has more to do with the example you set and the things you teach her. Its even thinkable that you should have let freddie keep the barbie as a case in point to all that is wrong with barbie. You will need to have that chat sooner or later as the message of barbie is pervasive (TV, movies, cereal boxes, video games, etc.) You will not be successful in insulating freddie from these things so the best thing is to "poison the well" w/r to the message they send. As freddie's parent, you have the upper hand (for a few more years at least) in the battle for her spirit - use the time wisely by instilling the correct attitudes about bad things and not by pretending there are no bad things (the "insulate" strategy). I have a daughter who just turned three and her mother and I have agreed to let her have "barbie" stuff in limited quantity. We just stress (but not overstress) that barbie is not real and that nobody really looks like that - barbie is a cartoon and that people are beautiful for what's in their heart). I hope we are doing the right thing. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

01-05-2004, 11:44 AM	#3
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	I know how you feel, and I've had similar scenarios play out in my head. The problem is, I cannot control what people give or say to Sarah. I can only deny Sarah visits with that person in the future. I mean, you can take the Barbie away, but then you're the criminal, and you've done just as much if not more damage than the Barbie would have. I've decided that I simply cannot control other people. I can only control whether or not they interact with Sarah. And even then, Kathy has to agree with me.

01-05-2004, 01:25 PM	#5
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	I don't think its overreacting. Her emotions do have value and worth. It's just important to eventually remember what solves things and what doesn't. It's like if you were writing a computer program, and people kept coming into your house and randomly changing lines without your consent, adding bugs, making features not work, adding obnoxious features you don't want, etc. You'd probably be pretty pissed off, too.

01-05-2004, 03:02 PM	#14
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	How can a Pepto-Pink toy line be anything but evil? It is the Wests answer to the burka. American women have the ability and right to make stupid decisions about how the world perceives them. I admire your tough stance, good luck poisoning the well, but be careful to avoid the trap of Barbie becoming the forbidden fruit that Freddie desires. [just]Oh yah get lots of armaments for Melissas kid.[/kidding] We run a Barbie free house here as well. The kids were programmed anti-Barbie long before the first one arrived, she was given the contempt she deserves. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-05-2004, 03:02 PM	#15
blue Operations Operative Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northern WI Posts: 739	Let me guess, type A personality? ;-) Your story made me laugh. But seriously, the bitch should respect your wishes. __________________ If you spot a tornado, always remember to point at it, yell "tornado!", and run like hell.

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