I had two aunts die of breast cancer. One of them had her cancer diagnosed too late after it had already spread. There was little they could do for her. My other aunt's cancer was discovered at a stage where it most likely could have been cured with surgery and chemo. Aunt2 refused to get medical help. She told the family that God would cure her. I'm sure God would have given it His best shot if she would have let him. God had sent experienced physcians and the latest discoveries in treatment of cancer. My aunt turned her back on them and died. It makes me sad to this day.

Anon, as others have mentioned, going to a doctor for a diagnosis doesn't mean your friend has to undergo treatment. In your place, I would strongly encourage your friend to go in and see what's going on. It may not be as bad as she thinks. It might be treatable. She might have many years ahead of her. I would definitely enlist the daughter's help, as well. If it were a matter of MY mother's life or death, I'd certainly want to know.

Best of luck to you and your friend. Cancer sucks. :(

Hard though it is, I think you need to respect her wishes and just be there for her. It may be that she is slowly changing her mind about seeing a doctor/telling people, and the first step is telling you. Be gentle and patient and be there. The treatments for breast cancer are horrible -mastectomy, chemotherapy, radiation, ongoing infusions and there are still a huge number of women who die anyway. And watching that is painful and heartbreaking. Your friend is not in denial, she's just choosing a different path. I think she has a right to her privacy, even if it's something her kids would want to know.

All your responses have been immensely helpful. I am leaning towards what monster thinks: I have to respect her wishes, let her choose her path, which is what I told her yesterday. But I would be remiss if I didn't urge her one more time to at least see a doctor.

Maybe this was a next step in confronting it, and she can now tell more people, it being more "real" but I will also urge her to talk to her kids.

Another friend has some stuff going on RFN, but the reality is he brought the drama on himself, and I can't put aside what I am feeling for K, who didn't ask for any of it. Yet my heart is being pulled in all kinds of directions today. :(

Thanks again, everyone.

Fuck Cancer.

If your friend is in the Philadelphia area, PM me. I have a friend who is a breast cancer surgeon and does a lot of work with extremely advanced cancers.

Anon what an awful burden to bear.
For both of you.

Dying from cancer is hardly taking the easy road, so if she is speaking from a position of knowledge then all power to her.
But by not getting a diagnosis she really isn't helping herself or her family.

She will need some kind of medical assistance at some point.
If she chooses not to have teatment, all well and good. But she should at least find out what the options are.

How would her family feel if she finally went to the Doctors to have them say, "Six months ago we would have given you a good chance.... but now...."

You can only support her.
Tell her about Bri, and my Mum, and MTP and Tennant's Mum and all the rest.
She needs love. But also information.

And my very best wishes to you and her.

I have a really bad dose of tonsilitis which is compromising my whole immune system.

I have good drugs now. I should feel better soon.

Students came in to tell us another student who was waiting was blowing her mouth and smacking her kid around. She said she could go get (let's say Buford) and HE would take care of us because he's a might powerful guy.

Then in speaking to the cow orker right next to me she mumbled that she would kill him.

Of course, the copperoonis are on it and FSM bless them for their presence.

Some people are too nutty to go out of their homes.

Some people should be confined to their homes in solitary. Slapping her kid around? Buford and his evil twin should come slap HER around. Let her see how it feels. :mad:

She was obviously batshit crazy.

These are the kind of people who don't have social skills developed well enough to know that you don't threaten people's lives.

The cops were with her for quite a while. Don't know what might transpire when she tells Buford about the indignities she faced.

Just another in a long line of chances for some crazed hilljack to kill people because the world didn't give them their ignorant desires.

:headshake

When one of my friends first moved up here she had a conversation with a local sheriff about life up here. She wrongly assumed that he wasn't busy most of the time. He told her he spent a lot of time dealing with people who'd had "stupid attacks"

She asked what a stupid attack was and he said, "Oh, you know; someone gets drunk and calls up his neighbor and leaves a message on the answering machine threatening to kill him and then leaves his name and number at the end of the message..."

A friend of mine who is a detective in one of the smaller, more rural areas of our county told me recently that when he was working patrol he got many calls from parents who couldn't get their child to go to school. So the parent would call 911. Patrol would go out, tell the kid they had to go to school and that was that. Crazy eh?

I came up $43 short at the end of my night shift at the Bates Motel. I counted the money 3x, added up the ledger 3x, and I still couldn't get the books to balance. I went back and looked at the guest list and only two people paid cash for a single room - $43.00.

I think I know what happened. Four groups of guests decided to come in and clog our small lobby at the same time. One group were Italians who couldn't speak English, but were very voluable in Italian. I think between all the Italian going on, and trying to sign in everyone else, one man just didn't pay for his room and I didn't catch that in all the commotion.

This is the first time in the 9 months that have I worked here that something like this has happened. I was scared the manager would take the $43 bucks out of my pay, but she let it go - this time.

Some people are like predators, just waiting for the chance to score. If I had to rip someone off, I'd go for a mega outfit like Walmart. But even there, a real human cashier is going to have to bite the bullet when her cash drawer comes up short.

And to all you lurkers out there (because I know actual Cellar members wouldn't do this): People, guess what? When you get too much change and keep it or sneak by without paying for something, you are robbing the clerk standing in front of you who makes minimum wage - you are NOT ripping off "the company" or "big business" or whatever. The company maintains its profits in part, because their employees have to cover any shortages that occur on their shift. :mad:

This time, I didn't have to and, hopefully there will be no second time.

Glad things worked out for you, but that is not always the case.
Still, the morally correct thing to do is correct the error.

Who? Me or the thief? I was prepared to have that $43 deducted from my infitessimal pay check, but when the manager said to let it go, I let it go - with deep gratitude.

The other thing that pisses me off is that the thief wasn't say a poor Navajo who had got a ride into town and ended up stranded (we see a lot of folks in that sort of situation). The thief obviously had money - he was dressed well and had a late model car with vanity plates. He just got himself a free room because he could. By time I had discovered the error and figured out who it was, he had revved up his engine and hit the road. I hope he overheats on Red Mountain pass and no one will stop to help him. Let him sleep up there at 10,000 feet in his little sports car for free.

OK, I've ranted enough about this. The sun will come up in the morning. :cool:

No not you, the hypothetical person in your post.

My cousin actually posted on Facebook when he got a bunch of lobsters for like a quarter of their actual price because a clerk made a mistake ringing it up. He was gloating about it. What a dick.

Bro-in-law put their dog, Lexie, down today. She was about 8. They adopted her last year from a humane society and found out about a month later she had an enlarged heart and congenital heart failure (the humane society knew but did not tell them). Anyway, she's been goin downhill pretty fast for a couple of weeks and he finally agreed it was time. It was a sad morning, and a sad homecoming. I'm leaving Della at my parent's this weekend because I have to work and I don't want him to be reminded by her what he's lost. I think it would just be insensitive to have her around right now. He is, understandably, very upset. My sis is less so, when they found out the dog was sick, her coping mechanism was to not get attached, and she's the type of person who can be kinda cold like that. I can't blame her though, it is hard to get attached to a dog that's not very affectionate (this one wasn't) and has health issues that you know are just gonna cause you pain when it dies.
My sis says they will never get another dog, or pet, but my bro-in-law is a pet person and they can't have kids, so I think eventually she'll give in. I just hope they get something younger and are more careful about who they adopt from.
It still really pisses me off that that particular humane society assured them that they'd had it all checked out that it was no longer having a heart problem when it obviously was.

Sorry about their dog MTP but shelters want their dogs adopted. There are good and bad shelters. There are good and bad breeders. JMO a good breeder is a better choice than any shelter. I just got an email from a lady telling me her sweet lil boy she got from me passed on , he was 17 years old. She wants another companion and she knows that I am one she trusts.

That is completely disrespectful and since you feel like its OK to kick a person when they're down, I don't think I need to react with kindness, especially not now. I don't have a single issue with rescuing dogs, in fact, I think it is the RIGHT thing to do. It is moral. I think breeding dogs and selling them (even if don't end up with a profit) is immoral. I don't give a fuck about how long one of your dogs lived and happy one of your dumbass customers was. My family has always "rescued" or adopted pets from all walks of life.
Tasha: large dog, part shepherd, found but don't know where I was too little, died around 15, heart-worms
Pooch: large dog (indeterminate breed), found at the flea market, died around 15, euthanasia
Bitsy: small dog, chihuahua/rat-terrier, "accident" litter from neighbor, 13, died from stroke
Buddy: black lab, abandoned by pseudo family member, 13 and acts like a puppy
Della: bichon frise, rescue from shelter, 3years and super healthy

Lexie was an extremely special case. I don't think my sis and BIL made a wrong choice when deciding to rescue, they just got duped by an asshole "humane" society. Its not OK to lie, whether you're a breeder or a humane society. Just like they had no way to know that the humane society was not being honest and could not be trusted, they could have the same damn problem with a "good breeder."
To top it off, they wanted a slightly older dog, not a fucking puppy. Not everyone wants to deal with a puppy. So yes, there are risks, just like there are when you go to a "good breeder." My whole issue with this is that the people they adopted from out-right LIED they weren't just ignorant of the condition, a breeder could do the same fucking thing.

Take your opinion and shove it. Self righteous bitch.

Umm what?

Dogs die no matter where they come from and no one can know when or how for sure. Deal with reality.

I don't have any idea where you get I am self righteous. I think you are in need of serious medication and some social skills.

That was WAAAAY the Hell out of line MTP !!!

Don't tell me what I'm in "need" of until you get some fucking manners.

Its not out of line for her to tell me that dogs from a breeder are better than from a shelter when I just expressed that my BIL had to put his dog down and that right now my family is hurting for him? Bullshit.

WOW !!

MTP I think you were absent the day they passed out manners. Self righteous are those that think they are "rescuing" a dog and then they are pissed off because it, like every other living being dies.

In case you misunderstood or if anyone else would like clarification, the lady that had the 17 yr old dog she got from me, got him when he was 7 years old after I paid to have him neutered. She did not pay for him and she did not bitch about it when he died.

If I was playing hooky that day, you played hooky the whole damn week.
I'm not bitching about Lexie dieing, I'm bitching about the lying. Its not that hard to understand when I capitalized the word in my previous post.
Breeders, as a norm, are selling puppies, so there was no precedent for me to believe the dog was not a puppy. You said specifically, that it is better to get a dog from a breeder than a rescue organization. There is no reason for me to think you mean any different than the normal way a person gets a dog from a breeder. To top it off, its insensitive as all fuck out to tell someone that they made the wrong choice to rescue their dog that just had to be put to sleep. Self righteous are those that think they should tell others that they should have got their dog from a "good" breeder because it would have lived longer, and they made the wrong choice by not doing so.

You obviously have no idea how people can acquire dogs from breeders. Breeders know more about the dogs they are placing then a shelter will know about the dogs they are placing. Its not self righteous to try and educate the ignorant. Probably wasn't the best time and probably no time would be best for you since you already have your ill perceived prejudices.

Holy helll, mort. I think the point nirvana was making was a salient one. Shelters are manned by largely untrained amateurs and volunteers whose main objective is to place volumes of unwanted pets. Detecting an enlarged heart in an 8 year old dog is undoubtedly well outside of the scope of normal shelter operations. Calling her self righteous is over the line. Calling her a bitch is down right cunty. Get a grip. Youre making an ass of yourself.

Sorry Moar, I'm with Jim here. That was totally OTT.

I will repeat myself. I'm not mad about the rescue organization not knowing. I'm mad that they DID know. And told my bil and did that it was fine and the dog no longer had the heart condition. She was from a foster home and was getting regular vet visits. I think it's over the line and cunty to tell a person they're stupid for rescuing a dog from a shelter when breeders apparently adopt out dogs on a regular basis and because they are a breeder they are clearly the smarter choice. That's bullshit, there is no reason to trust an individual over a rescue organization.

I don't recall anybody saying that a person is 'stupid' for going for a rescue dog.

I'm really sorry about your Bro's dog though. And yes, the shelter should have told him the truth about the dog's heart problem.


That said: I find my hackles slightly raised by your assertion that people who breed dogs and sell the pups are immoral. If you genuinely believe that then you shouldn't own a dog. There would be very few dog breeders in the world if people like you and I didn't want to be dog owners. Most of the dogs in the shelters originate from dog breeders, good or bad.

I've had good and bad experiences of shelters and of breeders. My own preference is to buy from a reputable breeder. Why? Because I want my dog from early puppyhood and I also want to know exactly what that dog will turn into, in terms of size, fur type, exercise needs and likely temperament. I got Pilau from a breeder, and I did a hell of a lot of research first, both into breeds and into breeders.

I seem to remember StaceyV leaving here because of an issue with a dog Nirv sold her.
Just saying.

*waves at Sundae*

HI SUNDAE!

To have a sundae on a saturday is special, indeed.

glad you're back!

What's Upsetting Me Today

This July has been the suck.

Worst July Ever. And I hate July. Suspicious of it.

I don't know nuffink 'bout that. But we (the family) have been stung before with breeders. There are some nasty tricks employed by the less reputable ones. Such as over feeding the pups with high protein to encourage fast growth, so that they look like proper nice chunky pups. Tends to lead to serious joint problems from an early age.

One of the worst problems though, actually, with breeders, is that they tend to be breeding pedigree dogs and many breeds have serious health issues. With the best will in the world, some breeds are more problematic than others. Non-pedigree dogs are often a lot healthier.

Just to correct you Sundae, Stacey V was not here actively posting when I arrived, had not been for a couple of years. I came here to read posts I googled about her treatment of her poor puppy she called the "little Pisser"'when I arrived. Had I read her philosophy about how she treats animals prior to her getting one from me we would not be having this posting. Some people should not have animals.


Stacey's problem with a dog from me stemmed from her and young people like her expecting perfection in a live being. She gave her an unnecessary surgery to remove her front dew claws twice because the dog was so distressed by having it's "thumbs" removed at 6 months it ripped out the stitches. The hair never grew back on her front legs. Stacey had the opportunity to return the dog for a full refund and decided to keep her and bitch about it. If someone will not return the dog there is nothing to be done about it. Stacey was a know it all and probably still is.

Stacey was a mistake in my screening process. I don't believe she cares about her dogs only what she thinks they can do for her.

She has since posted on a public reproduction list that instead of taking a bitch to vet for a c section she tried to save money?? and use forceps to remove puppies which are not used on small dogs and ended up pulling off parts of the dogs foot/leg. Yes what a lovely home she was.


Had I seen MTP's post about her sister and I did not know them, I would not send a dog to them because their coping method is to not love a dog that is ill.

Shelter dogs can be fine pets, it is the expectation of perfect because one has paid I have a problem with. Heart disease in a dog can spring up quickly when valves wear out. Shelters cannot possibly screen clandestinely bred dogs for genetic defects.

When you combine the problems and genetic defects of several breeds this is basically untrue and has seemed to play out in the case of the dog MTP's family adopted.

staceyv was insane from the git-go.

That's why I said 'often' rather than 'usually'. It all depends on the mix. There are some breeds of dog I just would not keep, even though I like them. Because I know that their breed is peculiarly prone to distressing genetic conditions. Much of it is because of the extreme breed standards imposed on these breeds in show circles. A situation that is thankfully changing, but which has left a legacy of problems.

staceyv was insane from the git-go.

Oh You SPIT on her SOUL !!!

She was.

But that was part of her charm.

having said that, she was a bit weird about her dogs. I never understood what she wanted from them.

Why the fuck did she have the dog's dew claws removed?

Breed standards can only be interpreted by the person that is reading them. They are not imposed by show dog breeders. It is the individual that can take a standard and use it to breed the extremes of a breed and certainly in the case of my breed Chihuahuas, I and most show breeders would rather die than breed teacups, blues, merles and over done heads, but they are the bread and butter of the back yard breeder.

Painting all with the same brush is never a good idea ;)

Because someone told her that the dog could not win in the show ring without having its front dew claws removed. Never mind that I and my mentor who has bred over 300 champions and several Best In Shows between us have never removed the front dew claws on any of our dogs. :rolleyes:

What's upsettng me today (and for the last week!!!):
 

ƒucking ants. ƒast, crazy little ƒuckers.

I want hit them all in their tiny little head with a tiny little ƒucking metal bar.:mad:

StacyV left because the dog Nirvana sold her shit on her carpet's soul. Everyone knows that. Try to keep up with the rest of the hikers.

Stacey V was the last show newbie I placed a dog with. New people want perfect and they don't seem to want to listen to the advice of those that have experience. Animal sciences was my major. Animal husbandry is my vocation. That does not mean that I am rolling in cash because I occasionally breed animals. I am lucky I get to do what I enjoy and make others happy in that process.

Do these people look happy? They should be, their kid is well adjusted not on drugs and she is working on projects that build her character. This is why I breed animals.

http://viperbull.com/ResChStarke2011.jpg

I knew a breeder who would add very fine sawdust to the oil and it would quiet the sound of tapping valves for a few hundred miles then you realized you were in need of an engine rebuild. Caveat Emptor.

I've never had a positive view of show dogs, since Pete's step-dad used to show the very hideous diseased looking rumey-eyed Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. I'll take my big old farm bred Aussie product of reliable working dogs over the fluffy show version. I do support girls showing cows though.

Oh I don't paint all with the same brush at all. And it may be that this is more of a UK problem than US. 'Crufts' used to show on the BBC every year, couple of years ago the BBC pulled out, and so have some of the main sponsors, because of the way breed standard expectations were impacting on canine health within competitive show circles.

Now you're right that much of it is about interpretation of breed standards, but it's also the case that a lot of breed standards have had to alter in recent years, most particularly with regards things like tail docking, but also to try and ameliorate some of the extremes in certain breeds.

A well raised dog is a treasure whether its a purebred or a mutt :)

Word up. :) Breeds do give you an idea what to expect so you can anticipate a need to chase sheep, foxes, or frisbees.

...or to be a couch potato and get enough exercise in the yard chasing a ball, for those of us who are too lazy to properly walk a dog.

I did say "I seem to remember".
I never saw the dog and have no other information.

I was actually anti-breed until I got my two Singapuras. And that only happened because my nearest shelters would not condone a cat being kept indoors (this has completely changed - some cats need rehoming that have never been outside and will only go to homes where this is understood and accepted) so I had to consider a breeder.

I'd still be wary of buying a breed with known health conditions when so many non-breeds need homing. But given that some cat breeds have real personality traits, I understand it. I've tried to get two people wanting cats to adopt older Singas rather than getting kittens. Didn't work, but I think I made a good enough case to make them think.

Cheers Bri.
Wave back x

There is a dog for every purpose from fucking cancer to chillin on the sofa.

It was a jest, a merry jape.

"That's what she said."

1) Nirv doesn't even know what type of dog it was or the root of its health issues.
2) Yes, I overreacted a bit, but I don't feel any need to apologize. Her response was rude and was just a stab to make someone feel worse about a bad situation.
3) Breeders are not rescues. They don't regularly rescue dogs from bad situations and try to give them better homes as a regular job.
4) @Dana, saying shelters exist because people want to be dog owners is like saying orphanages exist because people want to be parents. No, the shelters exist because there are BAD pet owners and breeders. People like me want to rescue dogs, not JUST be a dog owner. An integral part of my owning a dog is knowing that if I had not, it would not be living in such a happy home. This is not the same as just wanting to be a dog owner for the sake of being a dog owner.
5) If Nirv gets to express her opinion that breeders = better than rescue, then I am perfectly within my right to say I believe that breeding is immoral. We have 100s of thousands of animals that are put down or are in shelters every year, and yet breeders, no matter how "good" they are, continue to add to that population simply by adding pets. We need to take care of the domestic animals that don't have good care before we add to the population. I feel its immoral to ignore the pets we have in shelters/rescue organizations in favor of getting an animal from a breeder just because we don't think those in the shelter will not be perfect enough for us.
5) My BIL should have been more cautious about rescuing the dog that he did. All the warning signs were there when he adopted, but I do feel like the rescue lied to him and assured him that those warning signs did not mean what he thought they did. He did make a mistake, but telling someone that in their time of grief does not help, it only twists the knife. That is why Nirvana pissed me off. What she said was simply insensitive to the situation.

we'll give you another week to grieve