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-   -   Ending God's Tax Exempt Status (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=15131)

Happy Monkey 08-22-2007 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 377366)
Because then the government is charging people to exercise their religious freedom

No it isn't, as long as churches don't have to pay any more than anyone else.

xoxoxoBruce 08-22-2007 01:47 PM

Yes it is.

Happy Monkey 08-22-2007 02:08 PM

And I suppose that if churchgoers have to pay gas taxes while driving to church, that is also charging them to exercise religious freedom? And if they pay sales tax for their church clothes?

xoxoxoBruce 08-22-2007 02:13 PM

Not even close.

Spexxvet 08-22-2007 02:16 PM

HM, you're doing a good job explaining this issue to people who want special treatment because...well....they want to feel special.

Happy Monkey 08-22-2007 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 377374)
Not even close.

Exactly. When churches pay the same as everybody else, they aren't being charged to exercise their religious freedom.

skysidhe 08-22-2007 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 377035)
Most nonreligious organizations are tax exempt. Go to post #30 and plug in your zip code.

Thanks. I didn't see the link the first time around. My list is too huge to post. There are so many organizations and ones I didn't even imagine.

Clodfobble 08-22-2007 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
There are laws[pdf] regarding lobbying, etc. for nonprofits. If a church wants to remain a 501(c)(3) organization, it will remain under essentially the same lobbying and campaigning requirements.

The publication you linked to applies directly to churches. Generally, 501(c)(3) organizations may elect to spend a certain amount of income towards influencing legislation, unless they are churches. (See "General Instructions" at the bottom of the form.)

Happy Monkey 08-22-2007 04:16 PM

Before I posted, I originally didn't have the word "essentially" in there. There would be differences, but as I read them they wouldn't be very significant.

The publication I posted has a section on how that works. That election is an alternate method of calculating the maximum amount spent. The standard method seems to be allowable for churches, if I am reading it correctly.

xoxoxoBruce 08-22-2007 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 377383)
Exactly. When churches pay the same as everybody else, they aren't being charged to exercise their religious freedom.

Yes they are. Saying "everybody else" is putting a church on the same footing with an individual. A Church is made up of individuals that have already been taxed, so you want to double tax them in order to exercise their religion. Fortunately, the founding fathers foresaw your desire to repress the churches and wrote that protection into the Constitution. That's why the churches aren't taxed and can't participate in politics.

rkzenrage 08-22-2007 05:53 PM

Time to stop churches having political rallies & hosting candidates then.

Spexxvet 08-22-2007 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 377450)
Yes they are. Saying "everybody else" is putting a church on the same footing with an individual. A Church is made up of individuals that have already been taxed, so you want to double tax them in order to exercise their religion.

And a corporation is made up of individuals that have already been taxed...:right:

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 377450)
Fortunately, the founding fathers foresaw your desire to repress the churches and wrote that protection into the Constitution.

Is that a fact, or are you presenting your opinion as fact, again?:headshake

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 377450)
That's why the churches aren't taxed and can't participate in politics.

Quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
It looks like taxation after a religion has been "established" isn't protected, at least not by the founders. Those same, wonderful founders who didn't have the balls to make slavery unconstitutional.

Bullitt 08-22-2007 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage (Post 377452)
Time to stop churches having political rallies & hosting candidates then.

Why would the congregation (again made up of individuals) not be allowed to give support to the candidate that best represents their values and interests?

xoxoxoBruce 08-22-2007 07:26 PM

Because as individuals, they can express their desires, but as a congregation, majority rules and can be a misrepresentation of the individual's preferences.

tw 08-22-2007 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt (Post 377458)
Why would the congregation (again made up of individuals) not be allowed to give support to the candidate that best represents their values and interests?

Because that is the definition of a political party or a political organization.


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