Yesterday morning a four wheel drive was coming down the hill. Drove across my lane, across the first home's front yard (took out the mail box), into a small parked car, and into the front porch of a second house. That front porch collapsed on top of the truck. Completely disconnected from the house. They had to climb out a passenger window. Doors would not open.

He was confused. Said he had four wheel drive on. Did not understand why he could not keep it on the road. A fireman gave him a funny look and walked away. Obviously as a 4x4 driver, he did not understand.

Amazing how many 4x4 drivers just know they have more control. Because advertisng tells them to know. When confronted by reality (wheels so fighting each other to even increase tire wear), four wheel drive owners only deny. And post no facts. Just silly comments such as Bruce's. Also called wasted bandwidth.

He took out a front porch that was across the front of that house. The homeowner has just refurbished that porch this summer.

He was in four wheel drive. A moving four wheel drive obviously has less traction and control. He could not even steer away from the parked car. He was using four wheel drive. It gets you started. And creates decreased stability and controls. But many know othewise because advertising and emotion says otherwise.

You aren't even smart enough to stop digging. :rotflol:
You should work for FOX news.

You mean you do not need your grave yet? I could have sworn that was you driving into that porch. Same attitude. Same denial. Well, since you are driving a four wheel drive, we will keep the grave open. Chances are either you or your victims will need it.

I don't own a four wheel drive, I don't need one. But if I did, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one because I know their advantages and their limitations. I've driven them all, from a WW II 6x6 and old school Jeep CJs, to the modern 4x4 trucks and SUVs.

You keep citing these cases of people fucking up because they don't know how to drive, and blaming on the vehicle/manufacturer/advertising, instead of where the blame belongs, squarely on the driver.

I would venture the people that don't know how to drive properly, are now the majority, especially in adverse weather. If you rent or borrow a car, do you need instruction first? Of course not, cars have become an appliance, as easy to operate as a microwave oven. Something to move you from point A to point B without thinking, or interrupting your multitasking.

Does J.Q.Public ever stop and think about how they are controling tons of material at lethal speeds, in close proximity to others doing the same thing? Of course not, they are to busy thinking about other shit other than driving.

Therefore it's highly unlikely they ever think about the coeficient of friction, or slip angles, due to changing weather/road conditions. Too busy worrying about they might be late picking up the cat at the kitty spa.

So save your descriptions of 4x4s wreaking death and destruction, there are just as many 4x2s doing the same thing, and for the same reason, the drivers.

I vowed that I would never ever buy an SUV, but I am starting to get really sick and tired of not being able to see the road ahead of me because I sit lower than practically everybody in front of me or I can't see if there is a car coming up the aisle when I'm pulling out of a parking spot because both vehicles next to me are huge. Also, the cargo space would be kinda nice. But I don't really want to get saddled with a gas guzzler, especially considering that they are talking about prices going to $4 or $5 again. I'm really torn...and Dodge has improved the 2011 Journey too! (I'm stuck with Chrysler products being my only choice...that sucks too.)

So it was the driver's fault that Suzuki Sidekicks were rolling over even in mild testing by Consumer Reports. And it was driver's fault that Firestone tires were killing people. After all, driver's should not get in that situation. And it was driver's faults that Toyota SUVs were unstable if the computer bug did could not keep the vehicle from rolling over. And it was the driver's fault that cars without redundant hydralic brake systems were crashing. And it was the driver's fault that he could not see cars crossing his path (and then the government required side lights which stopped all those deaths).

Nonsense. All cars must be driven violently. And do not roll over. Only vehicles designed to be unstable, unsafe, and as cheap as possible are rolling over. At one point, one out of every four SUV crashes were a roll over. And one in every four roll overs killed someone. Obviously only SUV driver's are incompetent - your logic.

Then we have SUV that overrun kids 60 times a week. These vehicles are intentionally (and unnecessarily) designed to be so high as to roll over kids that often. But you know this cannot be true. Only the parent's failures permit a kid to run behind the SUV.

Only fools need unsafe vehicles for their personal glory and ego. Why is a HumVee so much lower and has much higher ground clearance? Army worries about a soldier's safety - not his ego. SUVs could be that much better. But then the ego trip would be missing.

Why is the Jeep suspension and steering 'barbaric'? Because it is good. We can blame the driver.

Yes, it is the driver's fault. He was so stupid as to be driving a four wheel drive in inclement weather. Any informed driver knows a four wheel drive is the most dangerous vehicle in icy weather. So you are right. We should blame the driver for stupidly driving a four wheel drive. Good luck getting any 4x4 owner to believe you. Denial is all part of the experience.

A higher center of gravity combined with a narrow wheel base was the issue with the Sidekicks.
What does that have to do with four wheel drive being FAR SUPERIOR in snow?
What is the relevance to that versus 2 wheel drive.

Ya know, just for fun I took out an explorer in the snow. Drove it in two wheel and then four wheel drive.
There is NO COMPARISON - zero, none, nada.
In four wheel drive it had infinitely more control than in two wheel where the rear was frequently fishtailing.

I would never own anything but a 4 wheel drive, and I don't even live where is snows. But I do live where is rains, and it rains a lot. And I hunt, and I use it to go to places cars cannot go. As classic stated there is NO Comparison as far as handling when road conditions are poor. The price of gas is no concern when it comes to my families and my safety on the road.

4WD/AWD in deep snow is a ton of fun. Rolling through 8" deep side roads with no trouble.

Yeah, but tw's only experience is reading consumer reports and the economist. :rolleyes:

Visibility is a real problem in parking lots now. The combination of vehicle heights and ubiquitous tinted glass make a very real danger. I park pretty far from store entrances deliberately so it's safer for me when I back out. More empty spaces around. Better visibility.

Driving on the road is less of a problem. Just follow at a safe distance, and you don't need to see around the car in front of you. Plus, when you follow at a distance, the big vehicles take up less space in your vision.

Good points Glatt.

Hint.

Obama is not black.

Hint.

It doesn't matter.

Obama is 85% black because he was run down by too many 4WD SUVs.