That's fair, and probably Ok with 'dux, though I certainly can't speak for him. :)

I think this thread has been good for most of us. Thanks jim.

Excellent suggestion!! > probably because I wanted to post this idea too. :) I don't think it has to be invitation only though, I think people should understand if they go there the gloves are definitely off!

Since I've been gone for a while, I just assumed that Redux was a redo of Radar.

I would respectfully suggest that you and Jim and others cant have it both ways either.

There is no one right way to participate in a discussion. If my posts are respectful, and I have said they will be, that should be enough.

OUCH! Redux is a registered Democrat.
Radar is a "constitutional scholar" and hardline Libertarian.

Redux if and when all your posts are respectful then of course you are right - no-one expects you to post anywhere you are not comfortable.
It just means that if and when your posts are disrespectful, no-one has anything else to judge you on.

Somebody said something like "I want to hate Griff for his politics, but he built his own house, and that is cool." Bout 8 years ago I think it was said. That's what it's all about.

~

So Dux (I will talk about you here in the third person) posting just to have a lefty voice responding, or whatever, gives his posts an eerie motivation, and grants him all the "Cellar relevancy" as the next Indonesian link spammer. He should no longer wonder why people carp at him. That is why.

In the tavern analogy, he sits and waits for the other tables to have a conversation that he can respond to, and once he hears a keyword, he jumps in, sits at that table, puts in his two cents, and then quietly leaves when the topic changes.

Indeed, if you do an advanced search for threads started by him, you will find only two of them - in about four years of participating.

He has chosen a popular tavern, but basically chosen it because it's the one closest to his house. If the tavern burns down he will have no concern and just move on to the next one down the road. Who is at the tavern, what's on the menu, what's on the jukebox, all sort of irrelevant.

(But if you ask why he is a Democrat, he may answer, compassion for others.)

(I was friends with a self-described Socialist, once, who pretty much hated 98% of people. I still don't quite understand it.)

Ut...I get what you're saying but I just dont agree.

I dont want to come as self-promoting, but I think I contribute to discussions...and in a way that is not purely partisan

Take the recent discussion with Bruce on the Voting Rights Act...it is not a D v R issue...it is offering my understanding the law.

Thanks, Sundae.

But others are suggesting that it goes beyond being respectful in my posts. I have to be more of a "community member" in ways they define....and I will consider it.

It's not like we're desperate to know about your personal life, redux. We're just trying to help you understand why you get no allowance for being human like others do.

have it any way you want it, just don't be bitter when we show you no consideration or compassion in matters like this. I don't care about you at all, for example. I actually care more about spexxvet, and I can't STAND that sonofabitch.

Jim....I'm not bitter.

Quite the contrary, I took the need to be respectful very seriously....but the other rules of engagement make me chuckle.

Now I am off to lunch with friends at a new restaurant. I probably wont report back with a critique of the menu.

Oh please! :sniff: We want to know all about it! I do anyway.

How's about just not using that word? Or some of the other ones? What is really being added by using profanity? If your argument is a load of crap, it's a load of crap. Cursing someone out isn't going to make it better.

that's just his own particular ƒucking idiom.

Huh? Redux was responding to a direct accusation from TheMercenary. He didn't say that out of the blue.

thinkin out loud here....

A little bird told me I should read this thread; I have though it took me two days and my lips are really tired now. I didn't bother with it for at first because I just don't care what lumberjim says anymore. And that still applies. He has his standards, and mostly I don't think much of them. In this case, however, I share his and others' sadness that the quality of the dialog in the politics discussions, and many other places here has declined, due mostly to the way many posts are put into the conversation.

To me, the name calling, the profanity, is nothing at all like a conversation. It is a shouting match. With bullhorns. To extend the popular and useful tavern analogy, when this happens it is like a loud disturbing ruckus. The analogy breaks down here for a good reason. In the tavern, there'd be a fight and some resolution at least to the point where the volume dropped again. But that doesn't happen here, because they can't "settle this like men, once and for all". They're stuck, using the only violence delivery method they have, more fucking shouting. It never gets solved. Mostly because in a shouting match, you're just trying to intimidate your opponent into backing down or running away. That never works here, because it just isn't that scary--oooo he's shouting at me--we're a bunch of internet hardcases, unintimidateable. It makes regular conversations for others nearby difficult or impossible.

But, the very thing that makes it last (on and on) here is the same thing that makes it ignorable. Just read around them.

It is not a conversation. It is not an attempt at an exchange of ideas. It is just noise. Content free noise. And it should be treated accordingly. I mute it or move away from it. If we were in the tavern, telling the shouters to shut up would be unlikely to work. I think it is just as unlikely to work here. Let them rave. I say this because I don't want *my* speech to be judged and censored. I don't think the rule "don't be intolerably irritating" has been violated. I think making more rules is not necessary. I don't think putting the onus on the moderators to protect me from this noise is appropriate (nor would it be successful in the long term).

The Golden Rule works here. Some want to shout at each other, presumably wanting or expecting me to shout back. I decline. I want silence from them, so I show them silence. I want dialog. I want conversation, to exchange ideas. This is the main way I learn.