I would never claim to be an expert on the matter, but privileges are earned. You earn the privilege to drive a car by virtue of age, testing, and it is isssued at a state level. Hence, the state may remove it.

But they can remove rights, too, apparently.

Careful Shawnee you're sounding like a CS.

The part that Radar fails to acknowlege is that those rights which he, I, and the founders agree to be critical are seen by the courts and people of the US as negotiable if not immoral. Right now competing ideologies rule the field. I was talking to a teenager about video surveilance a while back. He found nothing worrisome in being on camera everywhere outside his front door (not that he respects property rights), of course his Dad is a public school social studies teacher... To be lead off-track by discussions of 18th century philosophy is to do the work of the Statists, writing off libertarians as the people who would put nukes in our basements and the poor in the streets. It is tempting to try to explain everything with one perfect system, but it isn't practical.

I can't agree more.

Hmmph. May large earthworms invade your land while you're not looking.

I like the points here...I guess what I'm getting at is that Radar believes there is an obvious distinction, and I'm trying to see that viewpoint from someone who sees it in black and white.

I forgot the ;) after my statement. Earthworms?

Good luck getting a straight answer.

Now you see! ;)

I don't know the earthworms thing. Was going for some really lame "may something do something to your something" and earthworms popped into my head. :shrug:

Privileges may be legally revoked. Rights may only be denied, illegally and immorally.

Actually, driving is a right. The states lie and claim it to be a privilege, but this isn't the case. I bought the car. It's mine to do with as I please. I paid for the road. It too is my property. It's common property of mine, and every other person in the state. We can agree on rules for the road, but it's not a privilege that can be revoked.


If you want to walk across your yard, you don't require permission. You can do it all you want and no other person or group of people has any legitimate authority to stop you. If someone violates your rights, you still have those rights.

If you want to walk across MY yard, I may grant you that privilege. If you piss me off, I can revoke that privilege and I have not violated your rights. You would have no legitimate complaint if I revoked permission to allow you to walk across my yard.

What if I want to walk across my yard, which is right next to your yard, with a shotgun pointed at you - is that ok too?

You don't have the right to harm or endanger others unless it is in our own defense from them. Walking back and forth across my yard poses no threat to you, so pointing a gun at me is not a defensive action. It's an offensive one.

But I'm in MY yard.