Any way you can get a hoverround or scooter one that you can manage to put in your car?

My daughter just called to say she's dropping out of college in the middle of her junior year. She feels she can't do a couple of the mandatory courses but hasn't talked to her academic advisor. There happens to be a boyfriend who has not gone to college and who has expressed his opinion (last fall) that a degree isn't needed. He thinks he can make money with a 'Ghostbusters' company - a paranormal investigation company. Really.

My daughter was home for more than a month, just went back to school - and in all that time didn't talk to me or to her father about any of this. She thinks she's going to pay for her apartment and make ends meet while working at Walmart and a local stable. She has no job at the moment. Stable owners pay their help in lessons, hardly ever in cash.

I know it's her life. But oh. my. god.

I can't bear it.

You might want to slip in a couple remarks so you can give her an 'I told you so', later. :haha:

Show her the new Hispanic college commercial where the Mom is telling the son he is going to college and he disagrees and the film changes showing his life with a college degree and his life without.

I just logged on to her student page, where I used to pay her tuition; I didn't do that last fall, being otherwise occupied and my ex being responsible for tuition payment etc. She hasn't registered for any spring classes. There are no charges to pay because she has no classes. (There had been some worry about her qualifying for in-state tuition rates now that she's been there a year. She told me and my ex in December that she'd inquired, submitted paperwork, etc. She told both of us tonight via text that she was granted in-state status, but that makes no sense, with her not being registered.)

Her grades from last fall were fine, a small drop but still perfectly respectable.

She told me tonight that she went to classes this week. She told me during her winter break what classes she was taking this spring. Meanwhile, she had already chosen not to register for spring classes last November. The decision was made then.

I just can't believe it. She lied to me for over a month while home. She had lots of private time with me, she could have brought all this up. Instead we talked about how we were going to both graduate in May of 2014, how we'd be traveling between schools, what a big celebration we would have. She lied through our entire conversation tonight, as far as her status with the university goes. I am just ... stunned. My heart is breaking.

Maybe she just didn't want to drop anything else on you? Maybe she preferred to engage in the 'we'll both graduate together' dream with you rather than burst the bubble now, whilst you've so much other shit to deal with?

Oh Ortho! I really don't know what to say. Perhaps Dani is right, though ... she just didn't know how to handle it with you in person when you've got so much on your plate now, and chickened out? I am sorry you're really going through it right now!

ugh. Ortho-I'm so sorry about this. If it helps at all, my older boy did a similar thing-he got a scholarship to Toledo and bolted after two weeks (hated toledo) then went to an uber expensive private college (Walsh-Catholic college in Canton, oh) THEN took a year off completely to live in the slums of Columbus while becoming a personal trainer. took the whole year off. He learned he couldn't make it; didn't like living in the slums and the next summer he was at Ohio State and he'll graduate in the Spring 2013. His father was crushed when he blew the scholarship off (it was a football one, not academic) but the kid had to do what he had to do. My heart goes out to you, but she's going to have to learn her own way; just like we all do. :flower:

a year or so of Ramen noodles and sketchy neighbors will change her mind.

I'm sorry ortho kids can fill or break our hearts so easily. At some point they all have to make their own mistakes, we just have to carry the hope that they will recover from them.

Sorry ortho. Hope she comes clean about the lies -- the dropout is hard enough for you as a parent, but I'm sure her deceit hurts at a different level. :(

Oh Ortho, that is heartbreaking. Maybe she did feel the pressure of wanting to please you or not feeling that she'd be heard if she were to tell you the truth or maybe she knows in her heart of hearts that this boyfriend is bad news and she is fucking up her life but doesn't want to admit that to herself by admitting it to you.

Sounds like he may not be the best influence on her and the real issue here seems not to be college or even her lying to you, which are frustrating and heartbreaking, respectively, but that she seems to be abdicating her self authority to someone else.

I'm so sorry you had to find out this way. Maybe rather than confronting her she needs re-assurance from you that you love her whatever her, and you can decide if you want to call them stupid, choices she makes.

Seems like insecurity and or fear of what your response will be. But Ramen noodles and Walmart will either straighten her out or not.

Other questions, reefer? drugs? drinking? boyfriend?

I read Columbus as Columbia and thought, "Well at least he learned a life lesson!"
Looks like he did anyway, just closer to home.

The deceit is really hard to cope with. I understand her feeling constrained about talking it out last fall - she was to register for spring courses in October and that's when I started chemo. But to be home for a month in Dec. - Jan. and have all that time together, just us ... we've always been close, I always thought she could talk to me. The fact that she lied during our actual conversation last night (she doesn't know yet that I know she didn't register for the spring; she presented it that she went to classes last week and is now 'seeing the need' to take a year off) just floors me.

She is a pleaser; she is avoidant in her style of handling confrontation; she also has a history of going along with boyfriends and not acknowledging to us or to herself that the bf is running the show. She got out of a relationship with a VERY controlling bf last summer and fell straight into her current relationship. This one has all sorts of red flags (too intense too soon, bf declaring undying love within days of beginning to go out, her changing major interests and activities to line up with his, etc.).

The real issue - you nailed it, foot - she IS abdicating her life, her decisions, her responsibilities, her autonomy, to someone else. Again. THAT is what's breaking my heart and filling me with dread. She doesn't seem to have a sense of self - she talks a good talk at times, but what she actually does isn't consistent with the talk. I'm so fearful for her, going forward, letting her life be dictated by whatever abusive/controlling male is in her life at any given time. I wanted so much better for her. I hope there's still a possibility she'll break this pattern.

Meanwhile, it's Ramen noodles and Walmart. She hasn't done the math, I could tell last night - she hasn't begun to realize how her life is going to change. She thinks she's going to relax, earn some money, save some money, get all happy and ready to go back at some point ... whereas, on a Walmart wage, she won't quite meet basic expenses, no money for clothes, certainly nothing to save, no emergency fund should the car need repairs, nothing to pay car insurance with ... reality is going to hit hard. I hate to see it happen but it has to.

I did reassure her last night that I love her unconditionally - no matter what she chooses in her life, no matter what happens, I love her. I do. I would never 'not want to see her anymore', which she expressed as a fear. (I do NOT want to see the boyfriend, who is supposed to visit in March, but that's another issue.) I told her that I'll always be there for her; I want good things for her, want her to have a good life, but it's not up to me to dictate what she does or how she gets there. But I'm here for support and advice.

Still, the lying hurts a lot. I feel like I can never believe her again.

Chip off the old block. :eyebrow:

I guess I deserve that. Just more way I've screwed up in my adult life and hurt my kids.

What is her opinion on your ex-husband? I think I remember you saying that some of the kids were on your side, and some weren't. Because she is clearly fulfilling a pattern of dating people like her dad. Perhaps it might be useful to bring up the idea that we all tend to marry our parents if we're not careful, and let her examine for herself whether this boyfriend is like her dad (assuming she doesn't worship him, if she does it's probably not very helpful.)

A side note to consider, did she just drop off the college's radar, or officially withdraw? If you file the withdrawal paperwork, there's no hard feelings and you can come back as necessary. If you just disappear, that goes on your record and will be on there if she tries to transfer those credits anywhere else in the future. I think most places will let you skip one semester without penalty, but she really, really should officially withdraw if that's going to be her choice.

No, it's how you were screwed over in your adult life. You make it sound like you were in charge of your adult life, when clearly you were not. Any mistakes you may have made were in the choices between two or more undesirable options.

Looks to me like she's intentionally putting herself in a situation where she will no longer have choices, and can abdicate responsibility for what happens from here on in.
I wonder if she's pregnant.

@ preggers, EEEEK!

Ortho, How about the two of you getting into counseling together? Too close?

Now that Bruce has brought it up... as I didn't want to go there, you may want to continue to pay for one thing in her life while she's out of school, birth control.

You did all the right things O, your daughter made it to the age of 20 and now she has to fly on her own. She is an adult although it is my true belief that some do not get a full brain until they are 25. It must be hard to let go. :neutral:

And at that, the part of the brain that develops latest is the part that deals with a sense of consequence and impulse control

I have considered whether she may be pregnant. She has a pretty good form of birth control, unless she had it removed. She was home long enough at winter break for a pregnancy to become obvious, if her decision not to register for spring classes back in October was related to that. So - not likely, not right now. I don't discount the probability within the next year. :(

Clod, that's a great suggestion re checking if she formally withdrew or took a leave from the university. I'll check with her. She isn't registered for any classes right now so there's nothing left hanging, so to speak, but she may need to make a formal declaration of taking a leave. As for her relations with her dad, she seems to enjoy spending time with him, and he's made great efforts in the past year to be more involved, supportive, and to just spend 'fun' time with her. She doesn't idolize him. But I can see her unconsciously gravitating to controlling males.

Foot, I'd go to counseling with her but I doubt she'd be open to that right now ... plus she's a three-hour plane ride away. I have urged and all but begged her to get into counseling for herself.

:(

About the dishonesty part of it. I wouldn't take it too personally if I were you. No matter how old you are, you more than likely don't want to make a choice that you know will upset or disappoint your parents, and it's only as you get quite a bit older that you figure out that you can make these choices and explain your reasoning to your parents and then move on. Of course the issue of tuition changes things somewhat and i can see why you'd be annoyed that she didn't talk to you about it. Have you considered that maybe she just didn't want to worry you about it all when she could most likely clearly see that you were not coping so well with your own stresses without her adding hers?

I know it's hard to see your kids make what, in your own opinion, is a bad decision, but in the end, she has to make her own choices and live or die by them on her own.

I think we all as parents these days probably take too much control of our kids lives for too long. I say this because we, as the older generation/s sit around bitching about how inept the youth of today are, but we're the ones responsible because we've done way too much hand holding for way too long in a lot of cases.

She'll be ok ortho. Even if she takes a semester or two off, she'll be ok.

On that note...

http://alameda.patch.com/blog_posts/...t-help-my-kids

(Originally brought to my attention by xoxoxoBruce, credit where credit is due.)

You know, I have never been a helicopter parent. I grew up with a lot of freedom even for the '60s and '70s and I've been on my own since I was 17. By that I mean supporting myself financially and figuring out that paying the rent in a given month meant I wasn't going to eat for the last three days of the month. Not 'on my own' as in living in a paid-for dorm room and having fun money to spend on pot and parties. My money was spent on eggs. I was not sheltered and I haven't sheltered my kids.

I am distressed that my daughter has made a decision that's going to make life tough for her. But that's her decision. I haven't said I'm going to send her money so she can be sheltered from the reality of life on a wage of $8/hour. I am distressed that she has comprehensively lied to me for months, while accepting gifts and as many enjoyable outings and excursions as could be fit into the holidays. That she spent a week entirely alone with me and never brought up her decision to change direction. Most of all, that she is leaving school to continue her life with a weird, red-flag 25 year old who dresses in wrestling costumes, pretends to have a Ghostbusters company, makes scary postings on his facebook page about burning and death, and has no discernible income.

I have not held my kids' hands. They all did their own laundry from the age of ten or twelve; they all learned to cook; they all learned to clean a house properly; they never had car privileges without commensurate responsibilities. They all had one shot at higher education (paid for, because my ex's income precluded the possibility of loans); deciding to ditch that, as my second son did, meant any further education was on their own dime. They all were expected to have jobs and save money for the things they wanted.

My daughter WILL live or die by her choices. But you know what? She might just die; don't be so nonchalant with the phrase. She has a red-flag boyfriend who is assiduously isolating her from family and now from her schooling. Things don't have to go well. She does NOT have to be ok. Let me repeat that. She does NOT have to be ok. Life does not always go well. Young women get murdered by abusive, controlling boyfriends. Young people end up on the streets and in lives of hell. Young people disappear, never to be found.

I've seen it all my life, in my profession. Things do NOT have to be okay. Life does not have to go well. I know this, and my ex knows this, very well. So pardon me if I'm distressed right now. There's more at stake than a small child climbing the ladder at a playground. All I can do is sit back, assure my daughter that I'm here in the background and she can always contact me, and hope she will be okay. But there is no guarantee.

I get your situation because my sister just did all of this with my niece. She got pregnant lived with him had a baby then married the asshole and was married less time than Kim Kardashian. My sister called me several times a week with some new drama in that relationship and I know she wanted to shut her door on several occasions. I told her I thought it was a mistake not to let her know she always has a place to go should she need to get away from that life.

You get along with your daughter and the right thing is to always keep the door [dialog] open. You are a good mom.

Ach, Ortho, y'know I put my mum through pretty much the same shit when I was 18. He was a red flag boyfriend and I was throwing away a place at a prestigious university to go live in a bedsit (one room flatlet) with him and work in a plastics factory.

The only thing you can do is make sure those conduits for communication and emotional support remain open. For all the lessons she has inadvertently acquired about relationships and controlling men, there will have been other lessons in survival and self preservation.

Ortho please try not to catastrophize so much. You dont know the future, but you do know that you provided your daughter with a well-adjusted childhood, right? She didnt come from a poverty-stricken, drug addicted family where she didnt learn the basics for good judgment and decision-making. Right?

orthodoc-we are here for you.

she WILL figure it out---probably sooner rather than later.

I understand that I may appear to be catastrophizing, but I have reasons to dread what may be in store. For one, my profession is one that shows me how often things really do turn out catastrophically. It's a bit like being a cop. You see how badly things can go.

Secondly, my daughter had a difficult childhood. One of her brothers (my second son) had a diagnosis of early-onset bipolar disorder among other things, and was very violent throughout his childhood and teen years. He was admitted to hospital twice for trying to kill his younger brother. We had in-home help through the Wraparound program in our area but couldn't keep workers, because they couldn't handle my son. I looked into, but could not afford residential treatment. Our home was chaotic and violent and my daughter did not necessarily learn the basics of good decision-making; she learned to escape, avoid, and appease. This may sound unbelievable, but help is just not always available no matter what people think, and many, many families live with violent children where everyone is in perpetual fear and uncertainty.

So, no. My daughter emphatically did not have a 'well-adjusted' childhood, for many reasons. There are others that I prefer not to get into. Trauma doesn't come only from poverty or drug addiction. I fear for her because I don't think she has the tools to help her make sound, self-protective decisions at the moment.

Im so sorry.

But she does have you. And you are smart, tough and strong. That means a lot.

Painfull as it may be you have to sit back and let them slam into that brick wall called reality every now and then ,
they will learn , a few Bloody noses are generally involved but they will learn

A few bloody noses I can understand. Been there done that. It's a little more than that that I'm worried about, plus ... it doesn't matter. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. If it kills you, it's someone else's worry.

Like sexobon said: life is hard, then you die.

Anyone with a shred empathy ticks off the possible pitfalls, in their mind, when a friend/loved one appears to be fucking up. Hell, we do it watching people on the news or the silver screen.

Mostly there's not much we can do except bite our nails and watch it play out... unless we(or an employee), are willing to capture the(red) flag.

Red flags can be hard to capture ... but trust me. If it's possible, I will. I have skills of my own.

Ortho, would you like us (the cellar) to have a word with her?

;)

I wish ... unfortunately, I think this is something she has to figure out on her own.

This was my mass family emailing sent by my niece today... she is about the same age as your daughter..



I would have to be a moron not to know she is talking about her soon to be ex hub. Pretty sure this was directed to her parents but she likes to include us all. ;)

I pray she is not going back to this [ex?]meth head adulterer.

I told her helping someone, even someone who did you wrong is ok but being a doormat is not. I hope you can tell the difference. You are worth more than a place that someone wipes their feet.

Hope she remembers to help herself, Nirvana.

Meth head adulterer is a nice resume'. Good advice, hope she can hear it.

Orthodocette ... you want a 20% increase on earnings, lifelong, or not?

Niecevana ... enabling exploiters does not help them. Not really.


I blame Twilight for romanticising abusive relationships to vulnerable teenage girls.

I blame the entire history of the world.

and how cool boys look in black leather jackets.

These douches in Mali are blaming history and pissing me off today.

that is sickening.


what is WRONG with these people??

I think I need a new definition of human being. There are a lot of creatures in this world that I'd rank higher.

Absolutely sickening. The Islamist version of Fahrenheit 451.

They were slowly digitizing that collection. We've all been stolen from.

Aww, man. That ain't right. :(

I live in a rural area and when I venture out I cannot go to the grocery store gas station or anywhere without seeing someone who is on meth or shows the physical signs of meth addiction. Me personally, I cannot think how anyone would find the ghoul -look attractive. I know my niece does not do that stuff it really radically changes your appearance and that has not happened with her and she has had the same job for years, they drug test. I don't get her attraction to someone who looks like an extra from a Hollywood zombie movie!! Even if he claims he is off the drugs, he looks like an addict. :neutral:

Well...I think it's the brokenness that attracts. And the unpredictability and danger.

I notice there's a film just coming out now that does for the zombie what Twiglet did for wampyres: Warm Bodies.

It's a romantic comedy, so not quite the same as Twiglet, I think it's taking the Michael out of that whole genre a little. But...he's a very pretty ghoul nonetheless.

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/war...esa-palmer.jpg

Re: lost books

Very upsetting. The selfishness of those who do that is staggering. They steal not just from the world but from the future too. Fucks. Utter fucks. Them and all their ilk throughout history.

Honestly Dani I would rather do the girl ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...oyed_libraries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ning_incidents

Ha! Yeah, he does nothing for me, but then I am not the target market :P

So much for Muslim scholarship.

Just about everything worrying at me since I got home.
Mum back in Ignore mode, though I'm not really sure why, but as she's shouting at Dad it's probably something he did, not me. I've been blamelessly working after school, going to an Occucational Health meeting and to counselling.

A loan I thought I could make a few deferrels on is due in full on Thursday instead. Taken out when I was confident of my monthly income. Having been signed off work for nearly a month in Dec/ Jan I have no idea what I will be paid. Hairy times.

Been really snacky tonight (possibly in consequence?) which makes me feel fat even though over the course of the week I'm sure it's negligible. And it's all been healthy anyway. Just guilt-attack I think.

And not much more really, just general grumps added to having horrible dreams all this week - mostly about money, alcohol and family issues - no idea where they come from?! From my Mum telling me my Dad is not my natural father to my sister reporting me to the Police about backstreet abortions and defecating in the alley behind her house.

I feel as if I am missing some layers of skin this week.
All out of control. Even though I have been much further and much deeper before and barely cared.

:hug:

casual friend of mine killed herself over the weekend leaving four young children (she was 37) and a friend of Bill W's.

I'm very sad over this. Every time I go to a meeting I hear stories like this. Depresses the hell out of me. Just lost two to pancreatic cancer not too long ago and they'd been sober for years and years.

this thread and 3 more inches of rain is depressing the crap out of me...:(