What does it say about our civilization and society that we kill our children and think nothing of it?

You know what, rk, you're dead right.

The answer here should be obvious to everyone.




The woman gets to cut the kid outta her, and then she can give it to the guy. If he can keep it alive, great, keep the little fucker.
You can not, can not, force the woman to keep it inside her. You have no right to do so.

Because that's what you're advocating, rk, whether you like it or not. You're advocating a man's right to have final, be-all end-all say over what a woman does or does not keep inside her.
I can't look at you and tell you, for any reason in the world, that you must or must not get a vasectomy, a tattoo, a circumcision, a plastic surgery, or any other medical procedure. I shouldn't be able look at a woman and do the same.

Any chance you'll describe how your alternate law would work?

I think this is a clear case of man's law vs. natural law...........compounded with the inherent ridiculous illusions of control and the pursuit thereof. I don't even think I want to wrap my brain around all this ridiculousness anymore.....it's just such an overtly outrageous and dangerous concept that I don't think I want to spend any more time considering the arguements for it. Nonsense. Just complete nonsense.

Rk is starting to sound like Gannet. There I said it......."she needs to sign this vow to have my baby" is what it sounds like.....I like you as a person RK but your trite and benign arguements are just too frustrating to try to speak to anymore. It's "Man's Choice" to also back down when he knows he's way off-base and needs to reconsider all the possible ramifications for such a decision. I hope you make the right one.

Actually, it (abortion, not killing children, that's something else all together) seems like something most of us have put a lot of thought into - doesn't mean we all come to the same conclusions though.
Personally, I find unwanted and neglected children, the adults they become, and the cycles they perpetuate, much more disturbing and harmful to society than aborting fetuses. But thankfully my opinion doesn't mean squat unless I'm the woman actually considering an abortion.

Wolf is a woman?

Tit for tat!
Easy. Make a repressive, anti-choice law and try to make it look like a man-rights law.

*applauds* well said.

Datz wut doze han-gunz iz fo.

Man: "have an abortion and I'll shoot you"

Woman: "If I can't have an abortion, I'll shoot myself. Then you can have whatever you find in my uterus"

Oh really. Tell me, what attitude is that?

Somehow, I sense that you're not referring to my attitude toward personal freedoms.

From here:

It says people think their fleeting pleasures and momentary desires are more important than what they produce from them and the harm it does to the children they produce and those they produce them with. Memememememememe.
All the rest of the ad-homonym bullshit being spewed here is beneath me.
If you know you could get pregnant from vaginal sex you know you must own the child with the person you did it with.
In a perfect world with unselfish, reaonable, responsible people the law should never get involved.

No one gets pregnant on accident.
So many who get pregnant on the pill who say they did not know that anti-biotics or ____ neutralized them, or that condoms are not 100% effective, are so full of shit. If you know it could happen, you own it or don't do it at all.

Reporter: What happened?
Officer: Well, seems he fell off of that building, thirty stories.
Reporter: So they committed suicide?
Officer: Nope. They had not memorized gravitational theory or even the equation even though someone handed them a slip of paper with it on it once a month... so we are calling it an accident. No real reason to think they would expect to fall right?

If you know that gravity exists, then it is impossible to accidentally fall off?

What?

Yea.... like I said. The spin is clever but quite nauseating.

If you know contraceptives are not foolproof it is impossible to accidentally get pregnant.

I guess you could sit in some sperm at a nudist colony...