I don't think it matters how you word it. It all adds up to a large group of regulars from one forum going to another.

For what purpose? To have the same discussions there as here? To meet new people maybe? Trying to recruit more posters for this site?

What really was the purpose?

Honestly? I think it was just supposed to be for shits and giggles. It seems to have turned out to be rather more full of the former than the latter.

ok, well what was the source of the intended humour? Seeing them get the shits at a bunch of newbies all coming from the same place? Expecting them to just laugh and be glad a whole heap of weirdo's from another site came and upset the equillibrium of their forum?

Isn't that exactly what's happened here?


eta: I'm not meaning this to be directed at you Dana. It's just that you're the one answering the questions, and they're ones I've been thinking about ever since I first saw that safari thread the lumberjim posted. I'm just not surprised at how it's all turned out.

Well. We were returning the jape. As their safari had actually proved quite amusing. And it seemed an interesting idea.

I like Jim. I think he's a genuinely good guy. You can point to many things that show this, but the most obvious are all the community building things he's done like the car and the t-shirts. Another thing about Jim is that he's a mischievous joker. It sometimes rubs people the wrong way. I've seen people criticize him numerous times over the years, and he always stands up to them. We even have memes devoted to it, "my sister died on 9/11." His humor is welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

I saw BigV criticize Jim recently, and said nothing because I've seen it numerous times before, and thought Jim didn't need defending. I'm still confused about why it's a big deal this time. If he was kind of expecting to be defended, then I'm sorry I didn't speak up to say that he's a good guy.

I don't generally get involved in conflict. Don't want to pick sides. But I think it's worth saying that Jim's a good guy. I hope you both come back. We lost LabRat, and don't need to lose another pair of pillars.

I'm still a little bewildered by much of this. I'm guessing it's partially because I don't do chat. I get the feeling that a lot goes on in chat that I don't see.

I hope you both come back. But maybe that makes me a taker.

Were they invited?
Was punch served?

/obscure

A few people had my back in the very first dramatic Tiki thread, which precedes everything. Tiki had about 5 big fuck-you posts calling me the worst she could come up with. I wound up not just a "fucking bad person", but rather, "a completely worthless waste of humanity." She sprayed a torrent of liquid shit at me.

S123, DanaC, Moar and Flint, and a few others, "had my back" with statements about how Tiki should not have attacked me in such an abrasive way.

LJ had one-liners trying to poke Tiki in humorous ways. Jinx had nothing.

But it was OK! I actually secretly enjoyed being given the huge FUCK YOU posts. I just make my case best I can, and let people decide what they think. Wacky feisty bitch, I thought, this is actually fun, a little, someone who wants to flame the shit out of me. Nobody has flamed the shit out me for a few years, they all treat me differently here, that's actually not what I really prefer. So bring it on!

And, I thought, at the end of the year we'll all look back with a sort of satisfaction -- that was a really feisty whack-job bitch wasn't it, but she was fun for a while, man it takes all kinds.

very second, maybe.


http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=19826

Ah yes. I didn't participate in that thread because it seemed to be about people participating in some different forum. Not my forum, not my business.

fuck all this.

tiki is a troll. she was consciously trying to drive a wedge in among us. I recognize that.

it was simply illuminating to me that people would let her allegations stand.....for whatever reason...apathy, or fear of conflict...or agreement.....whatever.

I have more of an issue with people like dar and bigV that want to judge me based on their perception that I'm some kind of thug running amok in the church choir.

I can't actually fault them, because I've spent so many posts saying
'eat a dick' and 'cock' and calling people crazy........

I just have been re-examining the effort i put into this board.

what do I get out of it in exchange for the effort I put into it? Is it equitable?.....


please keep in mind that I'm just some dickhole in PA that does not effect your day to day.

also!

Cloud, I see you and hope you are doing well.

What? Who? What are you talking about?

The troll asked me to delete two of her threads and I did, an LJ post must have been in there.

I just picked up where I left off reading this thread 24 hours and SIX PAGES ago! Now I have a request: can I be banned for 3 minutes so I can go to the bathroom?

Jim, I think most people here really appreciate the efforts you go to, so try and keep that in mind. I'm surprised that you of all people have let someone get to you like this regardless of the fact that she was just the catalyst to it all coming out.

You and I have had our differences and continue to do so constantly it seems, but I think you're an important member of this group and you will be sorely missed if you decide it's not worth it to you anymore. Not everyone gets your humour, and there are those of us who don't appreciate it, but we're far outnumbered by the people who do.

Besides, I can't believe there's someone else on here you find more annoying than me. ;)

So just suck it up and get on with doing what you do best.

Oh...and EAD when you're done.

Sorry you feel that way Jim. For what it's worth you and Jinxi are two of my favourite people in here. Surprising given how much we used to clash way back when I was a new dwellar. Just because it's not always said, doesn't mean it isn't thought.

We should probably be more careful about allowing trolls to drive wedges between us all. It's only happened a couple of times that I know of. But that's a couple too many.


Oh, and don't forget to EAD!

:eyeball::eyeball:

It bugs me that she asked, and I also wish you hadn't been so willing to comply. I don't like thread deleting. I know her 99 laments were intensely personal, but if she didn't want them out there, she shouldn't have posted them in the first place. It's not like she had personally identifying information in them. She just had her feelings all over the place.

I actually enjoyed that thread a lot in the beginning. Then it got too self indulgent and I lost interest. (99 is a lot.) But deleting the whole thread is revising history. I think she's a bit of a nutter, and that thread was part of the evidence.

I have no idea what the 2nd thread was.

It's your board, and obviously you are going to do what you have to do, and I support that. I just hope thread deleting is kept to a minimum.

I think a lot of things needed to be said, and they were.

Thank you Dana, for listening to me and for understanding my non-understanding of the peacemaker thing. Though I admire that about you, it is harder when you're watching it from within the muck...

I think a lot of jim and jinx. I think they're good people. Have we always agreed? Hell no! I'm sure we've all seethed at each other. To me, though, it's more than e-friends: it's like family. We can fight like cats and dogs, but let some outsider dare to cross a line and, well, god help ya.

I was remiss in letting the original attack go. It seemed that I had often come to the defense of someone, only to see them patch it up later and I'm the outside crazy girl. I had resigned myself to this: eh, no one listens to me anyway, even when it's something I actually KNOW something about, so I'll just keep trying to be funny and wait to be discovered by a comedy writing team. But, as my temper is legendary, when I did express what I thought of BigV's superhero act and got the business from Daffo...backed into a corner Shawnee is not a good thing, and anyone within distance will hear the wrath.

This is me. Me magnified, no doubt, but that's why I've felt the attachment to this place: I talk about things here that I don't get to talk about IRL. Besides my best buddy and my family, I don't form deep relationships often. I have many many friends, many people who care about me, and who i care about, but when it comes to people I actually would hang out with, talk about my fears and problems and good things...few and far between.

It began to feel that I wasn't supposed to have success, that the only way I was anyone here was when things were bad. I felt guilty that my years of crap had finally turned around. I wanted my friends to say "Damn girl, good for you." I don't blame anyone, and I shouldn't need that validation, but I noticed, and it was a bit hurtful.

I have a couple reactions to being hurt: disappearing, or coming out fighting. There are reasons for this that I won't get into...but it builds up.

If I were in a "heated discussion" in real life, with a KNOWN person, and a stranger came up and told me I was horrible and formed all sorts of opinions about a history they know nothing about, all hell would break loose. The reaction would be just as it was here: who the fuck are YOU, and you just brought on something you should have stayed the hell out of. If, in real life, someone called me a stupid cunt, it wouldn't be just me rising up with the proverbial pitchfork.

Anyway, I appreciate the defenses, and the PMs. I don't know what happens from here, but at the very least I think it's good it's all out in the open.

You're in a Church Choir?

Well, PRAISE GOD!!! :keys:
..............................................................................................

I remember seeing some of that action with Tiki going on (I never logged on).

...that be what I would call a "cwazzy parson."

Deleting of posts... pffft... that's nothing more than the removal of a subjective mish-mash of rhetorical jargon condensed within the space of few hundred pixels. You da' Man so it be your call. Hell, I come here because you's people are the "sane" ones.

Any of that make sense to ya'll? Shouldn't. Why? Because I'm a Madman. :D

Seems there are benefits to lurking.

Well, back to being a nut again... :drunk:

S123 - I hear ya!

i love ya jim and jinx. Remember when I left jim? you said,

UR DOING IT RONG!

don't leave. TikiMarichiko is hopefully gone for good. If not, I'll personally taunt her a second time.

I agree 100% but openly acknowledge that the rules of the Cellar are not within my domain.

Here's why I agree with Glatt: Part of making posters accountable is the 'permanence' of one's posts. If you know before you start pecking away that what you write will represent you for a very long time then you think twice before saying something you will regret later.

Having the option to delete entire threads not only 'let's you off the hook' but it also has collateral consequences - the posts of all others who participated.

And to LJ I will say this: Knock it off.

What happened as best I can peice together is a consequence of the one of the many roles you have defined for yourself in the Cellar - specifically, the ass-kicking, 'ask no quarter/give no quarter', resident tough guy. In any social network (in the pre-internet sense of the word), when the tough guy on the block is challenged by the tough guy across town, any help offered by the crowd simply serves to cheapen the victory. A bad example is getting picked on at school by someone not even as tough as you then having your little sister step in and whoop the bully's ass.

Perfect example: Rich calls Jinx a whore. I was online when he posted that and my head nearly exploded. I exercised remarkable restraint in not replying directly to defend her. You know why? Because it is NOT appropriate to defend a man's wife when the man himself is present because it makes him look like a pussy. A man defends his own wife and the other guys stand by ready to step in if needed but stay out of it if not. I could have taken a swing - I wanted to take a swing - but it wasn't my place to do that.

In short, you aren't the type of guy that needs defending against the likes of Tiki who isn't even in your league. She's gone - you won without anyone's help and, it seems to me, that's exactly the way it should have turned out so what's the fucking problem?

Even the few people in here that aren't exactly your best buddies acknowledge your contribution and value to the Cellar. There's a time and a place to sing 'For he's a jolly good fellow' - when you are slugging it out with a psycho bitch with nails in her nose spraying bile out of a firehose is definitely NOT the time.

I kind of see what your problem is and I kind of sort of get it a little bit I guess but what I do get clearly is that you are making way more of it than it is. Way more of it.

PM anybody who let you down in your mind. Speak your peace and be done with it.

Then get your ass back in here - I need a new user title. Damnit.

Forums...

They are nice - real nice. Meet new friends and never have to deal with actually ever seeing them in person. This forum is really interesting. It's a good forum. Close knit group of people that communicate on a daily or, at least, a regular basis.

Drama? Yep, gotta have the drama. You get a troll every now and then. The troll is taken care of, ya'll give a group hug and everything is back to normal again. Someone says something pissy and hair stands up on the back of someone's neck... "How dare they say that?" :lol: Emotions flare, words are typed, things eventually calm down, everyone has a solution.

Honestly, who really gives a shit? Are you neighbors? Are you married or just shacking up? Do you live in another country or the same one but are 500 miles away? Whatever the case... there is a little "x" in the upper right hand corner of everyone's screen. Click on it once and your problem is gone.

An internet forum is never a reason to get all emotional over.

Whoa there big fella. I have said more than once that I like you and think you're a good guy. In particular you seem to be a great husband and father - and that goes a long way with me.

But that doesn't mean I won't say anything if I disagree with one of your posts. But disagreement doesn't imply disdain. Think of it this way - I wouldn't post a dissenting opinion if I thought you were a lost cause.

The other thing is that we don't really know each other. We just get a little peephole into each others lives. You ever read the story (or is it poem?) of the blind guys describing an elephant? That's what conversing online is like. You only get to see a little bit of what's out there.

I'm going to say this because it bothers me. If you (general YOU) encourage a suicidal person to kill themselves, you are an outrageous piece of human excrement and WILL reap the karma you so richly deserve by doing so.

oh, i know, i know. you didn't say "tell a SUICIDAL person to go hang themself" but you get the gist of it, right, babydoll?

Well, nothing except for what I said to you in chat that night, right, about her being high strung and way overreacting, again?

I'm sorry that's not how you remember things though, I should have said it on here too and made it public record.

Unless it was put in a thread that got deleted... :eyebrow:

and I think that's part and parcel of it. If it were all publicly recorded it would be nothing but a bitchfest in here and the real good stuff would be buried. there is some still in here somewhere. The upshot is we all knew she was cuckoo, but we didn't all say something everytime because it was so damn obvious. Perhaps some more should have been said some places. And it is disappointing when people who you expect to be there holding your beer go all goody-two-shoes and try to restrain you, but some aren't as good as others at judging when something really needs to be said and when you've just had a bad day and one too many and are lashing at the nearest dickhead.

But imagine if everyone had waded in every time drax was a dickhead, and rkz, and tw, and and and..... sometimes you just gotta let those who are dealing with it take one for the team and hope it blows itself out. And it can be hard to judge when the time for that is over.

But I am sorry for all that I love and appreciate feeling unloved and unappreciated for something I should have said, and I guess I let accusations of me being Jim's acolyte make me back off when I shouldn't. But I really just didn't read that thread because it had potential nasty and I wasn't needing any more nasty right then.

Well damn. This thread has been fairly enlightening and has caused me to go read a few other untouched threads. I didn't know all this was going on because when tiki showed up she just struck me as a bitter little drama queen so I never looked at another of her posts after her little youtube rant. It doesn't look like my initial scan was far off the mark.

Jim, you're a cock. and you look like Mr Incredible. I bet you even leave sweatdroplets on the gym equipment sometimes. What a jerk. Of course, you've got a gorgeous wife and beautiful kids so something tells me you must be an ok guy. Of course, I could probably have figured that out somewhere in the last 15,000 posts too. Oh well, in the end there is one really big reason you have to come back and play. That thing you do with your tongue. Absolutely.

I understand that completely. Thanks monster.

Personally, I think some of us, in a way allowed a fookin drama queen, attention whore, psychobitch to cost us one of the most kind, well informed and rational posters. Oh and jim too.


Very happy to see you Jinx!

I didn't know all this was going on.

My head is either in the clouds or under a rock alternately.

I saw the video thread but never played it. I guess one wouldn't know another found it offensive if one didn't say. I assume non posting would speak for itself.

and/or perhaps my opinion wouldn't count for much but I am sorry things have led to hurt feelings among you friends.

Not that it matters much but for the record and I have said it before I think you guys ( the lumberjims )are the neatest family. I admire the family things you do very much.

Damn! I go off for a few days and have a life away from the computer, and look what happens!

So Tiki's gone. Huh. Can I just say, I saw it coming? Obviously she is a nutter, and I am amazed that y'all saw that video she did about revenge and still behaved like she was anything remotely near rational. Yes, I know it was an act (probably) but ew. There were some nuggets of beauty in her "laments" but --and I know how y'all love poetry, but I saw the whole thing as madly self-indulgent.

Sky -- the video was about revenge toward her ex. I didn't watch it all, but what I did see was really crazy and gross.

I figured you'd known her before, that she wasn't a new member, otherwise I couldn't figure out why she'd just cracked open and laid a thick, smothering blanket of her own emotional drama all over the place - and been encouraged to continue. Rubberneckers! Admit it, you just wanted to watch the train wreck!

I also figured my own repugnance was a kind of weird female jealousy, or would be perceived that way, and I'm still pretty new here too, so I'd better just keep my mouth shut, figuratively speaking.

Maybe next time, I won't. :)

Let's all chip in and buy lumberjim a training bra for his tender, budding girl-bosoms.

Oh no you didn't!

Sure, why not? If you can't do anything about it, then it's just entertainment. Reading Tiki's posts was like watching an Itchy & Scratchy cartoon.

Not at all, that new/old bullshit is, well, just bullshit. Democracy in action, baby, any member is entitled to their :2cents:. ;)

Ahhh shut up you old fart!

j/k - I agree with you.

seriously. they're all puffy and new.....


youze guise are acting like i had a tantrum and huffed off.

It wasn't a cry for help, or attention. I just took a couple steps back, and answered honestly how i felt when questioned about it. Not blaming anyone in particular for not defending me...i only groused at UT because it seemed like he had taken tiki's side. he justified that stance in a PM to me.

it's not a huge big deal...


can we all shut the fuck up about it now?

Only if you promise to eat a bowl of dicks... deal?

So..................

Whatever happened to russotto?

ruwhatto?

Russ Otto. Man I couldn't stand that guy. He made a good footrest, though.

Jaguar isn't coming back, is he?

Didn't he huff off?

Thats just cuz he put you in your place

Me? In my place? I don't think I've ever been in my place my whole life! Many have tried, and failed. :lol:

Boy it took you two minutes to reply? You are slippin.

Slip slidin' away...

Jaguar has been around, but that name is dead to him. He didn't want the posts of his youth connected to him as an adult.

Srsly? I didn't know that...

Oh - interesting.

Well dayum!
I've just spent an hour catching up on this thread ...
I'm really glad that LJ and Jinx are back.
I know that the general rule is
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that men of good will do nothing"
but if we've not read the threads then we don't know there's anything to do ...
:chill:
... and sometimes people just don't read the threads (and sometimes that says it all ...).

Oh yes I get it. I can't imagine why anyone would feel the need to be so cruel, but it happens as we all know, and of course as you say, I was not suggesting anyone do that.

I still think lumberjim should EAD though.

Dammit, people, if we resolve things purely through chat and PMs we'll never reinforce the Official Secret Cellar Clique.

BTW, what did you do with Tonchi? I see she hasn't been here for awhile. Have you moved her into the Dwellar Protection Program.

NEW OFFICIAL CELLAR TERM ALERT!

OSCC
/: Official Secret Cellar Clique /:

I'm glad LJ & Jinx are back. Without them it (the forum) was kinda like having a hot dog w/out teh mustid.

..and Jim... you can EAD later... I think right now we outa kick somebody's ass! ;)

I don't know if they resolve things, but they seem to start a lot of shit that spills out onto the board.

From my perspective, the chat culture wrecks the context of the rest of the board. Like thread deletion it allows people to say shit they can deny later, but more importantly its created a subculture of people who operate in real time instead of the long term back and forth that existed which encouraged participation. I finally figured out that merc had built credibility in chat that isn't reflected on the rest of the board so I looked like a prick when I reacted to what he actually wrote in the permanent record. We're culturally different than we were and while that's a damn shame, pissing against the tide isn't something I can sustain.

I kind of prefer the fact that Chat does spillout into the rest of the b oard. Not in terms of drama and stuff, but because I can only make it into Chat at odd times. If the stuff going on in Chat was never referenced in the boards I'd feel like i was missing stuff I think.

It has changed the culture. But I'm not entirely sure quite how. Or whether or not it's a good thing. In some ways it is. It does allow you to get to know people at a slightly more immediate level. I just wish i didn't have to become nocturnal to take part lol.