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-   Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Impeding changes to our Health Care system (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=16747)

TheMercenary 07-09-2009 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 580607)
In fact, there's a spend-your-budget motive.
As I've said, we don't know what the final form will be, but the primary issue this is supposed to address is the practice of kicking people out when they get sick.
I don't know. I hope not. But if they have to make those choices, I want it to be based entirely on triage, and not how much the corporation gets to keep.Quite likely. Our current system is the least efficient, so there's plenty of room for improvement. Of course, the spend-your-budget motive will work against efficiency, but the tendency towards underfunding will work against that.
I want to save patients' money, at the worst time in their lives. An overall improvement across the entire tax base, due to decreasing the reliance on ERs, would be a welcome side effect, but not the primary issue from my perspective.
Some individuals may be saved money, because it will be paid for on the backs of many many others. There is no other way. Where do you think the hospitals are going to save the gobberment 150 billion dollars? What? you think they are just going to cut that from their income and profit? No, they will pass it on to others. NPR has done a great 2 day expose on the number of lobbyists in DC all getting their bit of pie from this bill. Be careful what you wish for. It is never as it seems.

Happy Monkey 07-10-2009 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 580609)
Some individuals may be saved money, because it will be paid for on the backs of many many others.
Ummm, yeah. That's the point.
Quote:
Where do you think the hospitals are going to save the gobberment 150 billion dollars? What? you think they are just going to cut that from their income and profit?
Even if there is no savings in the hospital, the insurance comanies will no longer take their cut. A big savings there.
Quote:
NPR has done a great 2 day expose on the number of lobbyists in DC all getting their bit of pie from this bill. Be careful what you wish for. It is never as it seems.
I certainly don't expect any bill to make it through the lobbyists unscathed.

TheMercenary 07-10-2009 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 580698)
Even if there is no savings in the hospital, the insurance comanies will no longer take their cut.
Ok. Please explain the details of that thinking and how you think they will no longer get a cut. Thanks.

Edt: None of the bills in Congress eliminate Insuance programs or create a single payer system.

Happy Monkey 07-10-2009 03:57 PM
They won't take a cut on the people using the public option. I don't know what reforms will be made in the industry as a whole.

TheMercenary 07-10-2009 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 580759)
They won't take a cut on the people using the public option. I don't know what reforms will be made in the industry as a whole.
Maybe not directly, but who ever provides that insurance for the government will be taking a cut for themselves. And that will most likely come from a combination of your taxes and companies who will most likely bail on providing any insurance to their employees. So yea, they will get their cut from you one way or another.

TheMercenary 07-10-2009 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 580759)
I don't know what reforms will be made in the industry as a whole.
Just for general information, do you think that you should get free health care or that someone else should be responsible for your health care bills?

Happy Monkey 07-10-2009 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 580761)
Maybe not directly, but who ever provides that insurance for the government will be taking a cut for themselves. And that will most likely come from a combination of your taxes and companies who will most likely bail on providing any insurance to their employees. So yea, they will get their cut from you one way or another.
I'm not sure what this says. How will insurance companies take a cut if employers dump the insurance companies in favor of the public option?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 580768)
Just for general information, do you think that you should get free health care or that someone else should be responsible for your health care bills?
I want to pay for healthcare in taxes, so it's there when I need it.

TheMercenary 07-10-2009 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 580773)
I'm not sure what this says. How will insurance companies take a cut if employers dump the insurance companies in favor of the public option?
According to the most recent plan, employers who do not provide insurance will have to pay $750 per employee to the government if they do not provide it. Note this is just one plan being floated. But it is a comon theme among the schemes coming up with ways to pay it.
Quote:
I want to pay for healthcare in taxes, so it's there when I need it.
According to a few of the plans, the only people who will pay extra taxes will be people who make more than $150k -$250k, depending on the plans, not people who pay less. This is an oppressive tax on people who have worked hard to make money to pay for those who make less. I would be all for an across the board tax for all incomes, a flat tax if you will, just to pay for health care for all. Say everyone pays a flat 5% from any income they make to pay into the system, I would be perfectly ok with that, but that is not what is being floated.

Happy Monkey 07-11-2009 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 580778)
According to the most recent plan, employers who do not provide insurance will have to pay $750 per employee to the government if they do not provide it.
And how would the insurance companies take a cut if companies fire them, and fund the public option instead?
Quote:
According to a few of the plans, the only people who will pay extra taxes will be people who make more than $150k -$250k, depending on the plans, not people who pay less. This is an oppressive tax on people who have worked hard to make money to pay for those who make less. I would be all for an across the board tax for all incomes, a flat tax if you will, just to pay for health care for all. Say everyone pays a flat 5% from any income they make to pay into the system, I would be perfectly ok with that, but that is not what is being floated.
It was floated (a new payroll tax), and I would have been fine with that as well, but IMHO, a tax would have to be considerably higher than 3% to oppress someone making $1 million.

sugarpop 07-11-2009 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 580768)
Just for general information, do you think that you should get free health care or that someone else should be responsible for your health care bills?
Aren't people still going to have to pay premiums that they can afford? Isn't THAT the whole issue, or at least part of it, that people can't afford paying so much? If so, it really isn't FREE, is it?

TheMercenary 07-12-2009 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 580851)
And how would the insurance companies take a cut if companies fire them, and fund the public option instead?
Another insurance company will take their bite. You still pay for it. Or maybe not. I have heard that only the rich will pay for your health care so you can get it for free. If that happens the socialists will be proud.

Quote:
It was floated (a new payroll tax), and I would have been fine with that as well, but IMHO, a tax would have to be considerably higher than 3% to oppress someone making $1 million.
No, the amount that at which people will be taxed is much lower.

Happy Monkey 07-13-2009 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 581092)
Another insurance company will take their bite.
How will an insurance company take a bite from someone on the public option?

TheMercenary 07-13-2009 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 581155)
How will an insurance company take a bite from someone on the public option?
Any insurance provided by the government will be provided by an insurance company. You do understand that part, right? Just like Medicaid is now.

sugarpop 07-13-2009 09:56 AM
OK Merc, you REALLY need to go watch Bill Moyers latest episode. He interviews an insider of an insurance company. A very high up insider. Someone who believed in what he was doing up until very recently. If this doesn't bring you to your senses, nothing will. This should REALLY PISS YOU OFF!

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html

TheMercenary 07-13-2009 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarpop (Post 581188)
OK Merc, you REALLY need to go watch Bill Moyers latest episode. He interviews an insider of an insurance company. A very high up insider. Someone who believed in what he was doing up until very recently. If this doesn't bring you to your senses, nothing will. This should REALLY PISS YOU OFF!

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html
I don't support insurance companines. I have been an insider in this system for over 30 years.


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