Wishing death or injury on someone for not performing a particular ritual is not "fine".

If a citizen chooses not to support this country, that's fine with me. If fellow compatriots consequently choose not to support that person, that's fine with me too.

That's their right. Exercising their rights is fine ... except among un-Americans.

It's not the non performance of a ritual that irks me. It's the disruption. He is paid very well to be a pro football player. He's not paid to be a political activist. If he wants to burn flags and preach his rhetoric on his own time, great. While he's in uniform and representing his team and the league, he needs to shelve his personal agenda.

In the 24+ years that I spent on active duty in the Army, including the first Gulf War and especially after 2003, I can't think of a thing that the military has done to guarantee any of the great freedoms we enjoy here in the United States. I've been to Iraq twice, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait and Qutar. Nothing that we have done has had any impact one way or the other on your ability to exercise free speech here in the United States. The last time that I can think of that the military was called upon to guarantee rights secured by the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to our constitution was during the enforcement of desegregation of schools in the south. I am a fan though of the sentiment put forth in the book "Stormship Troopers". When one is willing to lay their life on the line for the body politic, that deserves our respect.

I will make this distinction though: the safety and security of the United States and her interests is vastly different than securing your freedoms here within our borders. Vastly different because there is no existential threat to the United States. None. Getting hit and being put down are two vastly different things as well. But, that is probably another conversation for another thread.

I do have some sympathy with that.

I like that distinction. You are the real deal Joe, thank you.

What a marvelous challenge. I guess the first thought exercise I have for us is, what do you think would happen if there was NO US Military? It's the things that DIDN'T happen that are most interesting. We can argue all day about the efficacy of what they have actually done with it. But you get as much done displaying a shotgun on the wall than you do swinging it around. And it helps if you demonstrate you have the nerve to take it off the wall when you want. Here are some of my talking points.

1) There is still an Israel.
2) There is still an Eastern Europe.
3) There is, for the most part, worldwide peace.

I'm saying these things are not true if the US Mil doesn't exist. And I'm also saying that the loss of these things would deeply threaten the US.

It's great we feel there is no existential threat. What a great thing to feel. Best thing ever actually. But tell me: is it because there's nobody who wants to threaten our existence??

We did not feel there was no existential threat in 2002. Why do we feel that way now? Are we wrong now, or were we wrong then? Is it that the enormity of our response demonstrated that we are not a paper tiger? Did we actually address the threats we felt? Or is it just chance, just luck, just our response to events?

From what I've heard, his intention was to start a discussion about how African Americans are treated as second class citizens. He has succeeded somewhat.

Since when is not standing for the national anthem a direct insult to the entire military? Talk about pc and getting offended.

And since when was the anthem a proxy for the military at all? Its a proxy for the government, which is completely fair game for criticism.

I applaud his audacity. I applaud that he used his status in a very public way to keep the voice of Black Lives Matter going strong for those who might feel that there's no point in striving for something better.

I applaud his courage. He knew the blowback this was going to cause him.

Poo Poo to all those who are crying. Get real already.

Because the lyrics are about winning a battle against a foreign entity. Which is one reason our anthem should be "America the Beautiful" instead, as there is a growing movement for.

I agree with her

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The whole "military" thing is nuts. Gun Lobby gone mad. ;)

He's being a bit of a drama queen wanker imo -the cynic in me questions his true motives. And I agree with Jim to a certain extent -he's being paid to represent his team and if they want to dump him they'd be well within their rights. But it's not a very free country if you are not free to protest in whatever (legal) way you can. It's not a crime. Yet. I also have issues with the pledge of allegiance. But that's another story.

I don't have any issue with him having his girlfriend's opinion. Been there, done that... It won't end well... Nessa Diab is his Yoko.

I have an issue with him trying to turn the spotlight away from something I enjoy and trying to force 'these conversations' onto people that don't give a fuck about his pet issue.

I love football. It's church to me. I look forward to Sunday. The last thing I want is for it to become the venue for random cork soakers to stand in front of reporters and talk shit about what other people 'should' do or How this county 'should' be.


I was disgusted by his broad brush allegations about cops murdering minorities and being rewarded with paid leave. It's a juvenile, reactionary and inflammatory thing to say. He has no idea what those people face on a daily. He hasn't even read UT's pawn shop thread.

To condemn the entire country because of some overblown news stories about the oppression of rioters and cop haters is indicative of an emotional childish mind. Tw would not approve.

I guess this is why I avoid the news. Every time it seeps into my awareness, I get disgusted with the shitty people that are involved.

I know there are mostly(? Eh?) good people in the world. People that would tell you if you left your coffee cup on your car roof, or that your fly was down....
...And I might not want to punch this dickhead if I talked to him about this face to face for 10 minutes...

But it sure seems like he is reciting some shit his girl has been brain washing him with.

Maybe he thinks Nessa is smarter than he is, and most other people he knows, and he's on board with her outrage. I've seen that before.

I guess my main point is this:

Football is about football. Nothing else. Don't bring your personal agenda to the game. That's not what the people that paid the money they earned came to see. Stand up with your teammates and give the contest 100% effort. One hunnet.

I've not heard that anyone is trying to put him behind bars and others have the right to not only counter-protest; but, to protest his manner of protest and to protest him. If it affects his job, that's his tough luck as he selected the venue.

Those in professional sports are in an entertainment industry. It's all about popularity and no one has a right to be popular. If he loses his job, it would be the same as someone like Linda Ronstadt getting banned from performing in Las Vegas for interjecting her politics into her performances. When paying customers don't get what they're paying for the entertainers fall by the wayside. Even in a free country there's no free lunch.

He's just not a stand-up guy.