The Cellar - What Will the Feds Allow *You* to Put on Your Headstone

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- - What Will the Feds Allow *You* to Put on Your Headstone (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=11971)

Meh--my instincts say this one is all about money. They're terrified that if they budge an inch (and allow pentagram headstones for Wiccans) then that'll set a precedent for another 50 new headstone style requests, and they won't be able to buy them wholesale anymore...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

This is why I both Love and sorta am Annoyed by xob. He's always right (god, it's tedious) and has the unEmotional side of things under his thumb...but--BUT! I love a celebration of the Harvest AND of Mary and the martyrs AND Hershey! It makes me feel all dirty inside.

Why? This way everyone can celebrate Halloween for which ever reason they want, without anybody judging them.
It's simply love the one you're with.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

That can't be, I'm sure the government is paying list plus, for everything. :(

Can nothing happen in this country anymore but that someone has to sue someone else? Sheesh.

From here.

Quote:

Widows sue over Wicca symbol, headstones
By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The widows of two combat veterans sued the government Monday for not allowing Wiccan symbols on their husbands' military headstones.

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs allows military families to choose any of 38 authorized headstone images. The list includes commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckiankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

The Wiccan pentacle, a five-pointed star surrounded by a circle, is not on the list, an omission that the widows say is unconstitutional.

The lawsuit was filed by Roberta Stewart, whose husband, Nevada National Guard Sgt. Patrick Stewart, was killed in combat in Afghanistan last year, and Karen DePolito, whose husband, Jerome Birnbaum, is a Korean War veteran who died last year.

Wiccans worship the Earth and believe they must give to the community. Some consider themselves "white" or good witches, pagans or neo-pagans. Approximately 1,800 active-duty service members identify themselves as Wiccans, according to 2005 Defense Department statistics.

Attorneys for Americans United, a group advocating separation of church and state, argued in legal papers that it makes no sense for Wiccans to be excluded. The Army allows Wiccan soldiers to list their faith on dog tags, Wiccan organizations are allowed to hold services on military installations and the Army Chaplains Handbook includes an explanation of the religion, attorneys said.

Stewart, whose husband was awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart, has sought federal government approval to affix the pentacle to the Veterans' Memorial Wall in Nevada. Veterans officials denied the request but Nevada officials said they would erect a plaque with the symbol.

In memos and letters cited by the lawsuit, Lindee L. Lenox, director of memorial programs for the veterans agency, said the government was reviewing the process for evaluating and approving new emblems and would not accept new applications until the review was complete.

Circle Sanctuary, a Wiccan church located in Barneveld, Wis., is also suing, saying Wiccans have been trying for years to get the religion recognized.

The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Western Wisconsin.

I really don't see what the frikk it has to do with an anybody else what people chooose to put on their headstone.

Quote:

Americans United Files Litigation Challenging Veterans Administration Bias Against Wiccans

Combat Veterans’ Widows, Other Wiccans Join Legal Action Seeking VA Approval Of Faith’s Symbol For Military Memorial Markers

The Filings
U.S. District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin
U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit

Americans United for Separation of Church and State today filed litigation against the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) over its refusal to include the Wiccan symbol of faith on its official list of emblems for government headstones and markers.

Americans United is representing Roberta Stewart, whose husband, Sgt. Patrick Stewart, was killed in combat in Afghanistan in 2005; Karen DePolito, whose husband, Jerome Birnbaum, is a veteran of the Korean War who died last year; Circle Sanctuary, a prominent Wiccan church; and the Isis Invicta Military Mission, a Wiccan and Pagan congregation serving military personnel.

The filing of the litigation was announced this afternoon at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., by the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director; Roberta Stewart; the Rev. Selena Fox, Circle Sanctuary’s senior minister; and Americans United Assistant Legal Director Richard Katskee.

“For far too long, the VA has discriminated against service members of the Wiccan faith,” said Americans United’s Lynn. “After asking the VA on a number of occasions to stop its unfair treatment of Wiccans in the military, we have no alternative but to seek justice in the courts.”

Circle Sanctuary and Stewart have repeatedly called on the VA to include the pentacle an encircled, intertwined five-pointed star on its official list, but have been rebuffed.

The VA’s list of 38 approved symbols for government gravestones, markers and plaques includes emblems for Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Hindus, the Serbian Orthodox Church, the United Moravian Church, Humanists, Eckankar and the United Church of Religious Science.

The first Wiccan request to the VA came almost a decade ago. Since that time, the VA has approved the symbols of six other religions and belief systems. The VA also approved the Sikh emblem in just a few weeks.

Wicca is a nature-based religion grounded in pre-Christian beliefs. Circle Sanctuary says the Wiccan religion honors the Divine as both Mother and Father, encompasses love and respect of Nature, celebrates the cycles of Sun and Moon, and encourages adherents to live in harmony with other humans and the greater Circle of Life.

Stewart, a Nevada citizen, is awaiting a memorial plaque for her late husband on the Wall of Heroes at the Northern Veterans Memorial Cemetery near Fernley. Following his death, Sgt. Stewart was awarded the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart. Sgt. Stewart and his crew perished when their Chinook helicopter was destroyed by a rocket-propelled grenade.

The Nevada Office of Veterans Services has informed Stewart that the cemetery is on state land and that it will provide a pentacle-inscribed plaque for her husband since the VA has refused.

Stewart, however, remains committed to ensuring that the VA includes the pentacle on its list of approved emblems of belief, so other Wiccan service members and their families will be able to honor their loved ones in accordance with their beliefs.

“I won’t rest until the VA recognizes the pentacle as an emblem of belief,” Stewart said. “I will continue to fight the department’s discriminatory policy on behalf of other Wiccan service members and their families.”

Fox, a Wiccan high priestess and longtime advocate of religious liberty, also criticized the VA for its callous disregard of the civil liberties of so many.

“The VA should equally honor all our nation’s soldiers and their families,” Fox said. “Religious liberty is a fundamental American value that the VA should not need a court order to respect.”

Americans United has twice written to VA officials urging them to stop discriminating against Wiccan service members.

AU attorney Katskee said that it has become apparent that litigation is the only course.

“This case is about bolstering religious freedom in this country,” Katskee said. “The VA’s cramped view of religious freedom has done great harm to Wiccan service members, veterans and their families. The litigation is about forcing the VA to start recognizing religious freedom for all its veterans, not just those who adhere to more mainstream or well-known religions.”

Katskee and AU Litigation Counsel Aram Schvey are litigating the case against the VA. The lawsuits were filed in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit . [/url]

It is a real shame that these types sully the names by calling themselves Americans and Christians... they behave as neither.

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Originally Posted by rkzenrage

It is a real shame that these types sully the names by calling themselves Americans and Christians... they behave as neither.

Excuse me, could you point out where the article said the VA was Christian? :eyebrow:

Who else would care about pentacles?

An Octopus!....no wait that's tentacles...

I just did a coven class on the history and meaning of the Pentagram and Pentacle on Sunday night. It might well surprise some to learn the pentagram was used as a Christian symbol for a long, long time. One of its original meanings was the unity of corporeal Man with the Divine, with the five points symbolizing the head and appendages of the human body. Those familiar with DaVinci's drawing which demonstrates the geometric symmetry of the human form have seen one representation of this same concept. Early Christians adopted it as representational of the five wounds of Christ, the five virtues of Mary, and other Pentacostal expressions. In fact, its use endures in the form of the familiar five-petaled rose seen in many church structures.

Further, the pentagram is one of many geometric expressions of the Golden Ratio, a mathematical formula which appears in Nature in countless forms, and the underlying beauty of which was used prominently as a plot factor in "The DaVinci Code".

In short, the Pentagram is the heritage of all Mankind. Its direct association with Wicca, and the subsequent tendency by other more mainstream religions to incorrectly ascribe its meaning as Satanic or dark, is a relatively recent thing. In fact, the pentagram has been used for nearly six thousand years in one orientation or other (one point up/two points up), and only since the late 19th Century has there been *any* baleful association with this enduring symbol.

Attempts to demonize such a fundamental and sociolgically meaningful icon are shortsighted, selfish and unnecessarily antagonistic.

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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Excuse me, could you point out where the article said the VA was Christian?

Do you also need the article to specify the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground?

Flint's a bit stuck in his ass and his hole in the ground.
:p

I posted it here first, then I thought: Is this an American-ism, or what?

Absolutely.

Edited: Excuse me...abso-freaking-lutely!

The pentagram has also been used by many Christian churches through time as well.
Some think of it as symbolizing the five wounds of Christ. There are fruits and flowers that have it in their shapes and cores, an apple in Greece comes to mind, are sacred in some areas for this reason.
It did not become naughty until very recently... when the Pope used it to frame the Masons and the Knights Templar.
Those who are superstitious about it are just ignorant and focusing on things other than the teachings of Christ... more Us-&-Them crap.