The Cellar - What if I said.

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- - What if I said. (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=17029)

I think you guys are buying the Hillary/McBush spin waaaay too much.
In CONTEXT... Obama's comments are absolutely not offensive. Of course some people are going to be fucking bitter - The government's pissed on them for generations. Hell, the government's pissed on all of us for generations.
I personally applaud Obama for not backpedaling so much like everyone is trying to make him do. He said what he meant, and while it may be unpopular to actually say it, it's definitely true about SOME people if not all of them. Obama's got guts to say it and stick with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 445667)

The statement was made at a San Francisco big big money fund-raiser. It's probably what they expected to hear.

Half of all dwellars are in rural Pennsylvania, or have family and friends there in spades. Here's the deal.

Pennsylvania small town provincialism didn't start 25 years ago. It started as soon as the society became mobile. People interested in constant change, creativity and exploration started moving to the urban areas.

Obama's real gaffe here is that his statement is the entire opposite of what his campaign has been so far. It's negative, when his campaign has been all about the positive. It's divisive when the campaign has been about unity.

Most of all, it's wrong. The differences here aren't easily explained by frustration or jobs or promises. They're just different schools of thought.

One of my own recent themes in life has been strenuously avoiding characterizing those who have different points of view as "stupid", or "broken", or "bitter", or even "wrong", because our harsh divides are too harsh now and somehow we must resolve our differences and stop being assholes. So this one hurts a little.

I believe he was trying to pander to the donors and the electorate at the same time. On the one hand he agreed to the sterotype and in the same way he was trying to to not completely ignore the predicament of many rural areas in the US. He got it wrong on both accounts. Each area is distinctly different from others. Many of the rural areas in decline have been heading that direction for a long time and due to many factors. The guns and religion comment was just ignorant on his part and shows that he really is from an elitist part of society. I am not really convinced that his comments will hurt him much but they do give his rivals talking points for which they can beat him about the head relentlessly. He is learning the value of choosing his words carefully.

Naah, he's obviously discrediting their communication skills. Like they are ignorant folks that cling to stuff because they are too dumb to voice things adequately. Obviously pandering to the elite crowd that nods their heads, but he also gets to put his 2 cents in on why they are like that. "Urban" is to black as "Rural" is to:

This will be just another little chink in the armor or the image they've created for Obama the Uniter. It won't ruin his campaign but it will get a few people to stop and think about the possible disparity between his words and his ideals. I view this as somewhat similar to Kerry walking into a store and asking, "Can I get me a hunting license here?" Seriously? You want to gain the support of the middle class and you think this is how they speak and think?

It's an interesting way to state the opinion. It's phrased in terms of I understand where you're coming from, and I don't blame you for being that way, so essentially he's characterizing a group or people for having a character fault, albeit an understandable one.

How divisive is that? It's condescending, of course, but is it harshly negative?

Maybe a necessary part of coming to terms with people that you disagree with would be by trying to understand where they're coming from. I don't think the final destination of that thought process would be filing them away under a half-baked stereotype, but I think it might represent the middle part of an ongoing attempt to understand something that is, by definition, not within your personal belief system.

Some other popular methods would be to dehumanize the opposition, to villify them and to characterize their beliefs as purposefully destructive.

He's not doing that.

~snip~So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment, or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.~snip~

Antipathy to people who aren't like them...Is this a polite way of saying racist?

this kind of scrutiny on exerpted comments from a politician is retarded. you can twist a lot of things a lot of ways. The "pouncing" demeanor that I'm noticing from the Hillary squad is more disturbing to me.

The scrutiny is ok when the comments are used as quotes throughout history however....

Ah well.

The wife just remarked to me that the TV commentators are "making dead-horse jerky" of this.

Of course, the Dem Party isn't selling anything I'd buy, so... :corn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 445886)

The "pouncing" demeanor that I'm noticing from the Hillary squad is more disturbing to me.

I heard on NPR this AM her bringing this thing up in yet another speech, and her audience was murmuring and on the edge of booing her for it. I think this "issue" has just about played out. If she tries to milk it any more, it will blow up in her face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 445952)

We can only hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 445669)

Wow! Very well put UT... especially

"Never criticize, condemn, or complain" works well.

All together now;
Kumbya my Lord, pass by way....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicero (Post 445877)

Nah, as my redneck friend goes "I hate black people, I hate brown people, I hate red people, I hate yellow people, and I most certainly hate white people".

This sort of thing was bound to happen sometime with Obama's campaign. The US is too culturally diverse for one person to relate and understand them all.

We don' take too kinl'y to yur kine 'round here.
:D
We don' take too kinl'y to takin' too kinl'y 'round here, neitha, hawk- ahh.

Noo stereotyping going on here, move along.

I don't give two squats about any of the candidates so I will roam around and diagnose any of the comments as I please......
:D