well, I'm getting a lot responses commenting what women look for in a man or relating the question to man/woman relationships; but that's not really what I'm looking for. And I agree, there should be parity of desirable traits for people of both genders. But that's not really what I'm hoping to hear.

You can't tell me that men don't think about "manly" stuff, regardless of whether it's pc to say males and females should have the same virtues. (And by stuff, I do not mean pron!) Expected male behavior has changed so much in the last 50 years, thanks in part to a great deal of hard work by women, that I'm thinking it must be a very hard idea to pin down.

What do modern men think is proper male behavior? Do you still believe it's important to support the family and protect the women and children? To be aggressive and stick up for your friends on the playground? To be a champion burper? What?

Well, I know you're fed up from hearing from me, but it strikes me that it's not an uncommon belief that public introspection is not a manly trait, so you maybe be starting on an uneven keel here.....

an even keel . . . that's a boat thing, so that's manly!

I'm the champion belcher in our house (and I'm a gurl).

1. I don't think there is such a thing as proper male behavior. It's defined by every man himself.

2. Everyone has to contribute to a family. Everyone contributes what they can. There are no gender boundaries on contributions. In my relationship I make more money, prepare more meals, fix things around the apartment and do a good share of the cleaning. My girlfriend does more cleaning, takes care of the cat, and washes more dishes.

A man protects anyone he can if necessary and possible. Especially if they are less able to protect themselves.

3. Physical aggression is almost always inappropriate, except in sports. Intellectual and professional aggression is necessary, especially when it is paired with teamwork and cooperation. It's a balance.

4. I think I hit on it in 3. Balance. A modern man is more a balance of traditional, stereotypical and psychological gender traits. This has long been the case in the upperclasses. Now all but the lowliest motherfuckers are a blend of masculine and feminine.

I am sensitive, gentle and share my feelings. I am also aggressive in competition, and can push further and faster when caught up in testosterone-fueled brotherhood. I love babies and puppies. I sometimes break things by misjudging my strength.

Cloud, you said you were serious and I've been mulling on this for a little bit now, I have some more mulling to do.

Initially I'd like to say that I don't like the push to be equal in all things male and female. I think that is just, well, not what I like. Sure men and women should have the same character traits of honesty and fair play. Men and Women are different in many ways and I think the modern man in many ways is allowing himself to be bowled over by the PC horse hockey machine, which in my opinion would make our society a genderless homogenous, we are all the same blah blah blah.

Truth #1

only by a man posting truth #2 can we lay this belief down.


( mostly I thought it was just very funny )

I call bs on that. Can you name a female philosopher? I'm sure there are some (thinks).

There are no right or wrong answers, I don't think; and I'm not trying to make men justify their relationships or their sensitivity. I don't care if you wash the dishes or if your wife changes the oil in your car. I'm just looking for some simple wisdom about what you think it means to be a man, a father, a brother . . .

take your time, gents.

Simone de Beauvoir and Ayn Rand to name two. Wikepedia has a big old long list of them.

My actions are going to be viewed as good and normal by my daughters, setting the bar for their relationships. That means I have a say in the world my Grandchildren will inhabit. I cannot then engage in activities that are corrosive to the family or not be present for my kids. This also has the positive effect of being good for me. Right actions would include treating my love well and exclude being a typical Irish drunk.

I still need to engage my primitive side if I'm going to feel whole, that means building stuff, having guy/nature time, and engaging in something competitive. There is a fuzzy line between being too engaged in self stuff and not doing enough. It takes some reflection and will always be imperfectly executed.

Cloud, have you seen the poem by Rudyard Kipling about being a man? Someone posted it here awhile back. It's got some nice pithy bits.

I'm guessing this is something for your impending grandsons?

yes, it got me thinking. At least one grandson--and the possibility of one more. I'll look for the poem.

@ Griff.great response.

Thanks!

Well, that is because women at the time were not permitted to 'think' and so .....we still attempt to overcome the squashing down of of any independent thought. sometimes

Haven't you noticed that the perceived smart females of the day can spit cuss and talk like a man ?

Now you have me thinking cloud. Were there any female philosophers before the 1900's?

yes, I know there are female philosophers, really. There were a few, particularly religious women. There was one in the middle ages . . . Isabel? Santa Teresa? Nevermind! Irrelevant! the point is that there are a lot more male philosophers, so men can be introspective.