Occasionally even TheCellar is more fun when philosophy and art are in a Dwellar's toolbox... link

Ideally, I don't disagree with you but I have my stance because I didn't really learn anything in my classes outside of engineering. I can also say with a pretty large amount of confidence that others in my field will say the same. The only class where I felt I learned anything was a history class and that is because I was interested in the topic and the TA was excellent.

What it comes down to is that people are going to learn in what they are interested in. If an engineer or medical student is interested in art or music, by all means let them take it because they will most likely get something out of it, but if an engineer or medical student is not interested in art in music, forcing them to take a class won't accomplish anything. As I said earlier, I have no problem with allowing students to take classes outside they are field for exploration or interest reasons or forcing students to take classes that will build a skill set (public speaking or writing for example) but I don't see much actually getting accomplished from forcing students to take classes outside their field for exploratory reasons.

And some students do come into college knowing exactly what they will do. Some take a few years to find it.

I disagree. People are different. Some people find enjoyment in fine arts, some people find enjoyment in math. And keep in mind by math I mean actual problem solving, not long division.

This is getting a bit off topic, but engineering is much more than just math. Everything must be taken into consideration when an engineering company gives out a proposal for a bid on whatever needs to be designed. If the bridge is out in the middle of nowhere, the cheapest bridge is probably sufficient. If the bridge is in the middle of the city, architecture, aesthetics, and historical factors should always be taken into consideration. If you don't another company will get the job.

And the terrifying thing is that often the visually/aesthetically illiterate are making judgment calls about whether these projects are approved.

Our infrastructure is falling apart, in many cases, because people more worried about aesthetics and environmental impact, drag projects out for years and drive the costs so high, the projects never get done. Often the engineers don't even propose repairs, knowing the shit they'll be up against. They let things deteriorate until the inevitable necessity generates public/political pressure to cut out the bullshit and get it done.

Can you teach creativity? Or can you just provide an environment in which it is encouraged/allowed to develop/nurtured?

They get plenty of art instruction time at my kids' school, but it seems to me to be far less creative than many of their other subjects. "Draw this" "use this technique" "learn the complementary colors on the wheel", :Learn the fact about the life of Van Gogh" Even in the higher grades where it's an elective.

And I'd've been really mad if I was forced to take art at uni. an option, great, but mandatory? No. Of course in the UK, students specialize much earlier. it didn't even used to be mandatory past 9th grade.

Funny, while all this discussion of theories of teaching and learning is taking place, I'm either attending a uni staff training course where I have to reflect on my personal philosophy of teaching or developing the curriculum for a topic in philosophy of Education.

I don't want to come over all professional expert on this stuff because the discussion is really good as it is. In fact, maybe Imma cite youse guys.

Part of the problem is that opening a new civic feature wins votes, but closing a bridge for six weeks to do maintenance ticks people off.

Do we say spineless politicians? or stupid voters?

Our infrastructure is not falling apart because kids make macaroni collages in grade school. Our infrastructure is falling apart because of MBAs.

Amen !

Both.

Yes, and lawyers.

Regarding the post about Craigslist ads ---

The same could be said for (ahem) writers.

There are endless ads on Craigslist and other job sites asking writers to do stuff for free, and for piddly, insulting rates that might as well be free.

Granted, sometimes all they want are words on a page, not quality words. But I am SICK of talking to people who think they can hire a skilled copywriter for $15/hour. Yes, they can hire a copywriter for that rate, or even less and they might not be educated enough themselves to know the difference between the output of, say, ME, and some guy in India.

Fortunately there are plenty of folks out there who don't mind paying for the real thing, but it's frustrating to wade through the crap just to find them. If you let it, it can lead to second-guessing yourself and wondering if you're right about your own value.

Which is kinda where I am now. I'm better than I've ever been, but having more trouble than I ever have. :(

It's the economy, and bastards trying to take advantage of the it's-the-economy-mindset, Juniper, not you.

You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people Like you! :D

regarding the question of if creativity is "teachable"...our idea of teaching can be limiting, through our own experience of schooling through direct instruction/demo-- and that is an effective strategy for some things-- how to thread a sewing machine, how to add and subtract, etc.
I am a big fan of making stuff. Good teaching also includes creating or designing opportunities for creative experience- think lab or studio, or challenging play. I think it is helpful to make the examples of creative work visible and to instill reflection/critique as part of the process. I think that's how creativity is fostered, demonstrated, risked, learned. Its hard to assess, can sometime be very educational yet product-wise seem a horrible failure, doesn't fit basic skills models of teaching. For many this is the meaningful life stuff that engages them, pushes them outside of school and work. Too bad they can't merge a bit more.

Daniel Pink is the dude that's often charged with saying that the MFA is the new MBA...not sure I necessarily like what all that implies...but its interesting.
This is a great piece about creative motivation, creatively delivered. hope the linkie works