The Cellar - Military Justice

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- Current Events (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

- - Military Justice (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=33144)

Diaphone Jim

11-06-2017 07:44 PM

I was a platoon leader.
And I did have a CO who would have yelled because he got his uniform dirty.
Missed the point, Bruce.

BigV	11-06-2017 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 998155)

Easily remedied... death penalty.

Death penalty for all felons.. ok sarcasm noted

BigV	11-06-2017 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 998154)

The guy walked off the job negligently endangering his coworkers. The probability of someone with such poor judgement in some way acting to the detriment of another employer and coworkers is high. Look at criminals' rap sheets. He's beyond the formative years where his thinking processes can be easily retrained. The penalties he received were not sufficient enough to cause a Significant Emotional Event that would shock his thought processes into realignment. That's why society puts long term constraints on offenders.

Such a person could negligently endanger coworkers again. Such a person can bring great discredit upon a future employer, enough to put them out of business which affects the livelihoods of other employees and their ability to provide for their spouses and children. Not hiring such a person benefits everyone except the offender.

There's a card that psychologists play when they're trying to salvage the future of someone they believe has been either wrongly convicted; or, fully rehabilitated. They employ the old adage: Past human behavior is not necessarily a reliable indicator of future human behavior. Neither condition applies to this person. In this case it would be more like saying: Gambling with all of your money is not necessarily a reliable indicator that you're going to lose it.

Yet there are those who would tell others that it's good to do that citing the possibility that they could win.

Yeah, you didn't answer my question either. Who benefits?

xoxoxoBruce

11-06-2017 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim (Post 998296)

I was a platoon leader.
And I did have a CO who would have yelled because he got his uniform dirty.
Missed the point, Bruce.

I don't think so.
OK, platoon leader, you have a man missing and you don't know if he's AWOL or snatched by the enemy, you wouldn't do everything possible to find him?
If you were missing wouldn't you want the military to do everything possible to find you?

The situation over there wasn't easy to search, big area, hostile people, IEDs, potential snipers everywhere. If he'd been snatched they could easily move him around, so you can't be sure of where you'd already searched. That makes it tough to second guess their actions.

Undertoad

11-07-2017 08:12 AM

I don't get the point, does it have something to do with the state of their uniforms?

Diaphone Jim

11-07-2017 02:40 PM

OK, Boss, I will try and find a transcript and get back to you.
I was going by CNN's report that seemed to me to describe the horror and desperation of a search that left the poor long suffering captain's uniform filthy dirty.
A platoon out for a month seems pretty silly, especially since there was no food or water resupply in that time that just might have included some socks.
I have a hunch that in a close knit platoon the feeling was that that silly goose Bergdahl fucked up again, but we better go look.
The brass more likely felt that bring him back dead or alive was the best way to save face and rank.

sexobon

11-07-2017 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 998145)

... The likelihood of Bergdahl reoffending is minuscule, but what about the other felons, having been released from custody who face the same "significant problems securing employment"? Who benefits from this civic stance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 998154)

... Not hiring such a person benefits everyone except the offender. ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 998298)

Yeah, you didn't answer my question either. Who benefits?

My use of the term "such a person" refers to Bergdahl et al who share the characteristic of being a felon.

sexobon

11-07-2017 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim (Post 998296)

I was a platoon leader. ...

What branch were you?

Diaphone Jim

11-07-2017 04:34 PM

Army Infantry, 1965-1967. 2nd Bn, 1st Inf, 196th Light Infantry Brigade RVN 1966-67

sexobon

11-07-2017 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim (Post 998316)

... I have a hunch that in a close knit platoon the feeling was that that silly goose Bergdahl fucked up again, but we better go look.
The brass more likely felt that bring him back dead or alive was the best way to save face and rank.

I think chain of command attitudes on the recovery of missing combatants, in theaters of operation, has improved since I was on active duty and your service period precedes mine. Contemporary communications technology and greater transparency makes it more personal for commanders as they're more easily contacted by relatives of missing soldiers. Commanders may be more inclined to do right by the missing soldier's family regardless of how the missing soldier was thought of by peers and superiors. Commanders during our time(s) were more insulated from such outside influences.

Diaphone Jim

11-07-2017 06:14 PM

Uh, are these the same commanders that have brought us such sterling outcomes wherever they tread?
The chain of command that lost this soldier for five years and hoped to make up for it by imprisoning him for many more?
And on the eve of Veterans Day takes away his verteranship?
And gives Petraeus a medal of valor for hearing gunfire in the distance?

sexobon

11-07-2017 06:23 PM

Did you suffer some head trauma in nam?

You sound a little out of sync with reality.

Actually, you sound like you have all the worldliness and understanding of the military that a PFC or 2LT has.

Diaphone Jim

11-07-2017 07:45 PM

Gee, sexobon, I guess you figured out my agenda.
I thought it would take longer to unearth yours.

sexobon

11-07-2017 08:29 PM

Your empathy for Bergdahl gave you away as just another disgruntled veteran. You have every reason to be after the fiasco you endured. I hope that you were drafted and didn't volunteer. Today's military is all volunteer. A deserter has to be a proven latent conscientious objector, diminished capacity; or, a crime victim (incl. being told to carry out unlawful orders) before I'll criticize a chain of command's legal retribution. It's called military ethics. It's likely that you didn't serve long enough; or, in enough positions for yours to become well rounded.

BTW: All that gibberish about dirty uniforms and socks is probably just something some military legal beagle, who never spent a day in the field that wasn't for training, came up with. Whoever wrote the story just didn't know any better and ran with it. Makes no difference to the gist of the case as it's not part of the EEI (that's essential elements of information for you grunts). :p:

PS: If you didn't see my post in Cellar META, starting Veterans Day, all honorably discharged veterans can register to use the online military PX.

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/

Diaphone Jim

11-08-2017 05:47 PM

One of my favorite books from the Vietnam era is "Military Justice is to Justice as Military Music is to Music."
I still say good on Colonel Jeffery Nance for hitting the rare pure note.
And good on me for not having well rounded military ethics.

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