Yes, exactly the point I was trying to make in my earlier post (I, too, get scared when I find myself in agreement with Radar). The question of reality versus perception, unfortunately or not, is not one best left to college sophmores who have all had a few brews. We base our actions as a people, as a culture, as a country, as a government on what we percieve reality to be. Seldom do decision makers, whether individuals or governments, admit that their actions are based on a percieved truth which may be flawed, rather than on the actual REAL truth.

My whole point was that there is sound, but the scientific, the subjective, definition of sound requires all three items.

That is why I said the definition of sound, not the actuality of sound.

Plato's allegory also covers the trauma of gaining knowledge that is so different from what we "know". To me, it's a warning against hiding behind dogma and ideology too much.

So, is there a difference between reality and truth? To me, truth is more dependent on perception than reality is, because two different perceptions of a single instance of "reality" can be equally true.

To mangle Radar's example: ask the concertgoers "Who played?". One will say "the person with the brown hair" while another will say "the person in the green shirt". Both are true, but there is only one reality.

:blunt:

Objective reality exists, and subjective reality exists, and the connection between them can only be guessed at.

But which one is reality reality and which one is just, well, reality?

Objective reality exists independent of our belief or acceptance of it. Subjective reality is how we choose to perceive objective reality.

Sidhe

Perceptions are not reality. To claim they are is like claiming a painting of a cat is a cat. Our perceptions are limited while reality is everything. We can only see the limited amount that will fit in our own little window. And our windows are tinted different colors to fit our own notion of how things should be.

That's a very limited subset of the truth. The truth and reality (not our perception of reality) are inseparable. Reality consists of everything that is. And truth encompasses not only that, but the reasons behind it.

Example:

Reality: Bob and Jane walk into a store and Jane asks Bob, "What do you think of this yellow t-shirt and holds it up". Bob shouts back, "That's it! I want a divorce!!!"

Truth: Bob and Jane are married, the shirt Jane is holding up belonged to Bob's mother. Jane threw it out with many of Bob's other sentimental belongings to the thrift store and knew it would hurt him if she held it up. Jane did this because she found out about Bob's affair with his secretary. Bob thought he could get away with it.....

i read something once that opined that humans can percieve about 6 or 7 percent of actual reality. Insane people see 8 or 9 pct. At first this made me think that reality is subjective. reality is as I percieve it, and you are all just participants in my reality. As I am in yours.

but.....on some base level, a thing is or it is not. reality....real reality...is unshakeable, and immutable. as radar said, perception of reality is what matters, but no one really sees the REAL reality.

ah, but how do YOU know that? Perhaps someone actually does have the ability to see the "Real Reality," but the rest of us would never understand this because our own perceptions are so flawed.

simple....again, as radar mentioned, everyone's perception is colored by their life experience. everyone has life experience, so everyone's perception of reality is subjective.

sorry to quote radar twice in one thread, but i find myself in agreement with his pov.

signed,
radar jr

Ok, how many people do I have to piss off and annoy before people start quoting and agreeing with me?

You chintzy bastards...

Edit: misspelling

6

Ok, I know I'm gonna get it for this one, but here goes...

The human brain percieves and reacts to everything as if it were real, whether it is or not. If you hallucinate, your brain does not recognize the difference between "true" reality and the "subjective" reality of the hallucination.

Not that that clears anything up, but I just thought I'd throw it in there, anyway....

Sidhe

Dammit!

Any recommendations on how I should go about it?

I mean I can't posssibly piss off anybody with brains, so who should I single out?