If I want to travel 500 feet away, I'll walk.

Not if there is a fence in the way.

Will you bring a stepladder?

I haven't been in many GC's, but the ones I have been in, in Northern VA, had high walls surrounding them and a gate that opened directly onto a major road.

And the atmosphere - I've never been more creeped out in my life.

I'll never dispute the right of GC's to exist, but damn if they aren't some of the creepiest little antisocial mini police states you can find in the US. On the other hand, they attract GC-type people away from other neighborhoods.

I've lived in gated communities in vegas, and there are pedestrian turnstiles (one on each directional wall) by a guard gate. No step ladder required.

If a GC is somewhere you don't want to go anyway, why do you care if there's a wall or not? It's not as though tearing down the physical wall will make the inhabitants start throwing block parties for outsiders. They'd just hire more security instead.

It is sort of insulting, though. They're acting all superior by locking people out of their precious matchy-mailbox little world. But that's fine. I don't want to see a bunch of Stepford Wives all leaving their house simultaneously to walk their identical SharPei's. Or however you spell it.

But you still need to go to the gate to leave the community. You can't walk to that house 500 feet away, because you have to go all the way out to the gate, down the busy street, which may or may not have a sidewalk, and then into the other gated community to the other house.

Because it's a barrier to your passage to somewhere else. With a grid system of streets, you can use any cross street to get to where you are going. Gated communites cause congestion on main roads, and increase travel times when you want to go somewhere.

johannesburg is what happens when you take gated communities to the extreme.

Gated communities are a response to Johannesberg. But a lot of places in the US, there's gated communities where crime isn't anything like that kind of problem -- I'll bet that includes most of the ones in Phoenix, for instance. Just a haven for security-freaks who like to feel exclusive.

phoenix is a grid system and i see no traffic disruptions from this at all. we have traffic lights on every intersection. The traffic keeps to the main arteries - reducing traffic flow through neighborhoods, allowing our kids to be a little bit safer in their yards, driveways, and sidewalks. the arteries are an exact 1 mile block system, every half mile has a main thoroughfair (sp). this means that at the very most, 1/4 mile in ANY direction takes you to a street with easy access.

maybe it is hard to visualize this but phoenix isn't all gated communities, but it is almost completely WALLED communities. it really isn't about being snobby, or elitist or keeping anyone out. phoenix is a horizontal, rather than vertical city. i am very blessed that i have a 1/4 acre lot that buts up to a preserve. most lots run from 6000-8000 sq ft. this means you are right on top of your neighbors. people have walls around their back and side yards for security and more importantly -for privacy. if my wife wants to layout by the pool topless, she can. if my son wants to play in his sandbox while i make dinner, he can - he is protected from prying eyes and bad intentions by a 6 foot wall. (and 2 large dogs) i can put my dogs in the backyard, without worrying about putting them on a chain, etc. it also means i don't have to look out my living room window and watch my obese neighbor sit out on his porch eating KFC and chain smoking until 3 am every night too.

it doesn't mean we are unfriendly or anti social. we have block parties frequently in the cul-de-sac and everyone has a great time. the kids play basketball and baseball in the common areas. i am one of the few people who has actually brought people from the neighborhood into my back yard. in phoenix, your backyard is like an extension of your house - you don't invite everyone into your house and you don't invite everyone into your backyard.

come to think of it - the only homes in phoenix that don't have walls are in Sun City (retirement community) or in the more rural areas.

No sweetie, no...the gated communities are back to back, so they are interconnected.

maybe gated communities in philly are different than those fould elsewhere. maybe that is why philly is so depressed.

Have you ever lived in Phoenix? Or Vegas? Or LA?

No, the violent crimes aren't loke Johannesburg, (thank God) but I'd rather live in a gated community than have bars on my doors and windows.

I remember this about Pheonix now. It was settled after the invention of the automobile. I was amazed at how huge the blocks are. Here, you could have 20 blocks or more in a mile.

Obviously, gated communities are diffferent everywhere, and it sounds like for Phoenix it is working.

A fundamental truth, though is that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. If you have a fence around an area, it will be blocking people from going in a direct line between two points.

Here's a hand drawn map of what a typical gated community around here looks like. If you live in a green house, and your friend lives in the other green house, you still have to follow the purple path to visit one another, and both communities together take up a huge chunk of real estate, keeping everyone else from cutting through the area. Maybe they are different around you and OC.

lookout - suburbs in australia are like that, having a wall around your property it totally different to a gated community with private security and restricted access.

I should qualify all this. Technically I live in a gated community, this apartment block has private security at the door, CCTV on the main entrance both inside and out, 4 locks between me and the outside world and pin-locked doors in front of those. This isn't the worst part of london, it's not the best either. I hate it and am actively looking to move into a private house.