How do you know all this?

Ha! The media? :lol:

I think the former addicts just know what needs to be done - they are walking the walk. Compassion doesn't help, even if you keep it up for years, it just makes it easier on the addict to stay addicted.

But there is a difference between compassion and enabling, as there is a difference between enabling and stoning ('scuse the pun.) ;) People with support systems (compassion without enabling) are typically more successful. Being ashamed of oneself is a huge symptom (could be chicken AND egg) of addiction, and a real roadblock in not only seeking help, but in stepping forward and making one's way out of the shit.

I agree that "awww, poor poor thing" helps no one. I also think public condemnation helps no one. When one has one's foot in the door, whether by force or by free will, they can best be served by compassion without pity, encouragement without excuses.

I think the system may be enabling her if she is allowed to take one of her prescription drugs. A couple I can see like Zoloft and Adderall but WTF does she need dilaudid ? :eyebrow:

Hello!

When all of your compassion is used up, your addict will still be an addict. And while they will have forgiven themselves for all the lying/sneaking/stealing/addict behavior that led you there, they will be angry with you for your lack of compassion.

... and blame you for all the wrongs they've done.

Classic, how can you keep proclaiming what a former addict you are? Just a couple weeks ago you posted about the beers you were drinking. I've heard it time and time again from you, how you've conquered some demons (which as far as I can tell was normal young people partying) then raising a beer in a thread or saying "I don't know, I was drinking beers (or wine) that night."

But yeah, big man is walking the walk, talking the talk, lying the lie. As per usual. Hey, it could all be true, but will you make up your mind what YOUR personal truth is? You don't seem to have much of a handle on it.

And the addict in my life thanked me, still does, for being there for him when he was ready to get out of rock bottom.

I see whining about being prey to an addict as pitiful as pity for the addict themself.

Most addicts (including myself) have never forgiven themselves and are their own worst enemy/critic/hater which makes it hard to recover AND the addicted brain LOVES to use this as an excuse.

LiLo is afraid - and who wouldn't be? - and it doesn't seem like she has any internal coping mechanisms or reserve (ha! hence the addiction!) so it makes perfect sense for her to throw a tantrum. I can only hope she turns it around the way Robert Downey Jr. did - coz that man was effed up before he cleaned it up.

Great example, I forgot about him. IIRC wasn't he a selection in the death pool a few years ago?

Love is a state of mind.
Marriage is an institution.
Getting married to someone you love is being in a Mental Institution.

Just correcting a fact - Khloe Kardashian was convicted of a DUI, not Kim.

Personally I don't have any sympathy for LiLo. Why should I? She'd have none for me.
I do not condemn her for being an addict. I don't even judge her for it.
I just think once she's in the system she should follow the rules.

The not-drinking rule - bloody hard. You can't push an addict into a recovery that way.
But she's had TWO DUIs. That's pretty poor. I'm sure the bracelet was not fitted after the first one.
She can drink her head off as far as I'm concerned - I don't know her so I don't care about her. But if you've been convicted once for heaven's sake don't do it again. And this is where the money comes into it - she can afford a taxi. She must have loads of friends with cars. She can stay home and order in - keep it off the streets.

AND she has been missing the classes prescribed.
One because she went to Cannes.
That is when I think "Just suck it up". Do your classes. It's not overly punitive. They are for an offence THREE YEARS AGO. How many classes could there have been? My government-funded course was only 11 weeks and I jumped through hoops to get on it. Sadly it wasn't for me, but I turned up all the same just because I'd got a place. If I thought I might go to prison otherwise I'd have camped on their doorstep.

Sorry, I now sound like I have an issue with her. I don't really. But when I sit down to think about it I tend to strip the addict part out and just see a young lady who thought she could buck the system. She's learned she can't, in a rather unpleasant way. But better this than her getting tanked up behind the wheel and next time ending someone's life.

Drunk drivers are lucky if they don't kill themselves, or their friends, or complete strangers. No argument there.

I am surprised at other addicts who can't have any compassion (yes, even for the sneakiness, the duplicity, the "fuck you" attitude that pervades an addicts mind.) Then again, sometimes people are truly addicts and sometimes it's a way to get attention.

Maybe, and I don't know, once one has come through on the other side there is no memory of what it felt like. Hopefully that is true healing, I would hate to think of it as dry-drunkenness or ostrich-head sand-stuffing.

I don't think Ms Lohan would act so repulsively to get attention: that is a true addict acting out right there. Addicts don't care how ugly you think they look, or how horrible you think they are. They need help, not "poo-poo's" from those who've never dealt with it, or those who think they have but have no idea of the depths addiction can take one to. Or, just can't seem beyond themself to realize that one size doesn't fit all in the timeline, treatment, and realization of addiction. 'Cause that would be the epitome of egocentrism.

I, for one, applaud Bri for her honesty in all her dealings with her demons. I would think that being an innerly honest person would help one truly recover. You DA girl, girl! :)

Just for accuracy, I never said Kim got a DUI.
BOLD MINE
yup yup yup

Andy and Aunt Bea drug him up proper.

She's been "somebody special" her whole life... the paparazzi, the money, the A list parties. Her addiction isn't a problem for me, plenty of addicts go through life without hurting anyone else, functioning and paying their way. But when they think they are above worrying about hurting others, it's time to slap them down. The court allowed her to keep taking the 5 prescriptions because they don't care what she does to herself, the court is trying to keep her from hurting others.

Lesbian Prison Gangs Waiting to Get Hands on Lindsay Lohan, Inmate Says
Bwahahahahahah

They actually took the time to write this story?

that woudl explain why the tabloids want to get her exclusive post prison story. They know something LiLo don't

She won't be in jail more than two dozen days, and won't have contact with Lesbian prison gangs.:rolleyes:

So there's no justice?

We should ask whip what the over/under is.

I can't stand her, I hope she gets locked away for a long time. Maybe it will fix her head up being behind bars. I bet she gets treated like a queen in there. :mad2:

Martha Stewart got treated like a queen because she was nice to her fellow inmates. They liked her. I can't picture Lindsay making friends.

The only difference between Ms. Lohan and my own entitled, miserable, demanding drunks and junkies is the level of income.

I have a quote from PK Dick that I keep taped to the desk.

"Drug use is not a disease, it is a decision, much like the decision to step out in front of a moving. car."

The disease model has screwed up effective treatment for years ... "Oooh, cool, it's NOT my fault. It's my genes, it's my alcoholic dad, it's my spoiled and pampered upbringing." None of those things forced your arm to go up and down to your mouth.

And she needs a new shrink ... no responsible doctor should be prescribing benzos or amphetamines to someone who already has an addictions diagnosis. That's another thing I see far too often. Adderall handed out like candy to speedfreaks.

She's got a whole new career in front of her, anyway ... next season on Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew. I look forward to seeing her argue with Tom Sizemore around the pool.

Oh wolf. What the hell do you know about it?
Whats that? You've been working in this field for decades.. .. ..
<crickets chirping>

Yer funny.

We can figure this out.

Points that support the disease model:



Points that support the decision model:

disease:
Some races are immune to alcoholism because of different reactions it causes in them.

decision:
Anyone who successfully follows a lifelong abstinence policy will not be affected.

Wait, what? Are you trying to say that alcohol and drugs cause some kind of "chemical" reaction? The HELL you say! You've got some farfetched ideas young man. Now pull yourself up by your bootstraps and put that crack away, you cuckoo bird! ;)

[quote=wolf;670813]None of those things forced your arm to go up and down to your mouth.[/wolf]

Yeah. The same to fucking fat people, too, who whine about how expensive fresh food is. NOBODY FUCKING FORCED THEM TO EAT AT McDonalds and Wendys and stuff chocolate in their pie holes, did they?? No body forced them to overeat like gluttons - fuck 'em! Let 'em all die of high trigylcerides and HTN, cancer and cholesterol!

Why FFS should insurance co. pay fucking MONEY to have their fucking stomachs stapled????

Right?

Bologna.

no thank you - Roast Beef or Turkey please :3_eyes:

disease:
Simply stopping causes serious, negative, sometimes life-threatening physical reactions in almost all addicts.

decision:
There are people who simply decided to stop and therein did so successfully.

Why should people get free money (disability) because they're too fat to work? They'll just spend it all at McDonald's, they ain't got nuttin' else to do all day. We're enabling them!
:lol:

Why does insurance cover ANYTHING that is the person's own fault? Does insurance deny coverage to a drunk driver who wrecks and is hurt? Does insurance deny coverage to giant asses? Do we deny vision insurance because we read too much? Do we deny dental insurance because someone chewed way too much Juicy Fruit? Do we deny rhinoplasty because some dumbass had his nose so far up people's asses it was deformed? No!

Because we live in a society.

Do insurance companies pay to deliver babies? That was your decision!

spexx - quit being an idiot.

Midwives used to deliver babies until doctors (MALE doctors) saw dollar signs and drove them out of business. Now that malpractice is so high for Ob-gyns, they are willing to give the practice back to the midwives.

At any rate - there's no comparison between the issues.

Miss Lohan showed up fashionably late to court today, surprised the judge didn't throw in a contempt citation for that.

Not sure what to make of the maneuvering with Shapiro and the improperly completed form to change attorney of record, though.

Dat's some funny shit right there.

Chuh. According to TMZ, ole LiLo will get her Adderall and Ambien whilst in the pokey.


What a crock.

Yeh they said she's only gonna be there 14 days as well.
Her Dad was on Larry King last night with his atty.Trying to play the concerned parent card ... AGAIN. I dunno, maybe he really does care about more than just the money.
Still, he spent a lot of time disparaging the mother. Good job - NOT.

He is one of those saying she needs to not be allowed to take ANY drugs, prescription or otherwise.. Which I agree with.

I know, SPUCK. I agree with that as well, but the way he came off on LKL was terrible.

Can you imagine going through some kind of personal hell (those above that sort of thing exempted, of course) and having your father go on tv to tell everyone how this should be done? Were his great ideas how she should be handled in PLACE of the bad parenting, or just an addendum? No wonder the girl is fucked up. Thanks for the support, daddio.

Like any good CEO, he's taking charge of damage control, and trying to get his cash cow back in the black.

That's true, and I know it happens a lot, but the naive side of me is really sad to think of horrible awful parents. :(

Thats exactly how he came across.

And here we go again... Daddy has been arrested for attacking his girl friend.. sigh

Families that play together stay... that way

From CNN ...
Let the next phase begin. I'm sure wolf has made all the preparations for her imminent arrival.

What a crock. They should have kept her in for her entire sentence. The special treatment celebrities get makes me sick. She was in just long enough to give the appearance of NOT getting special treatment.

It's completely normal, actually, for such sentences to be cut short.

But complain more, guys, there is so much to be outraged about here.

You have to ask what serves the community better?
Giving a cell to someone with a DUI from 3 years ago, or allowing someone else within the prison community to spend time in solitary confinement?

I'm not a fan of custodial sentences for minor offences (my "lock her up comment" was tongue in cheek, knowing she had already been sentenced at that point). I think community work serves far better, is cheaper and more useful, and rarely gets cut down to this extent. What would I rather pay for, someone to pick up litter on the streets and have a curfew in their own home for three months, or someone to be housed, fed and clothed by the state for 13 days?

I'm not anti-Lohan.
I'm not unsympathetic to addicts.
I believe in treatment rather than punishment.
I just can't bring myself to care about someone who acts dangerously and then doesn't fulfil reasonable stipulations imposed.

Meh, maybe it's my hatred of people who turn up late or cancel at the last minute.
My reactionary heart believes it should probably be legal to gun them down in the street like the dogs that they are.

See, this is the rub. Many who would profess "why the fuck do I care about some damn 'celebrity'" if say, we were talking about Celebrity A marrying Celebrity B, and would poo-poo the interest in such fluff. However, if for some reason it seems like Celebrity A is getting something over that "normal" citizens do not, all of a sudden it matters a great deal what those previously "who cares about" celebrities do, or don't do.

This has been mostly my crusade in the matter: the hypocrites I speak of could also very well be run down or gunned down like the dogs they are (only I think most dogs are OK, and deserve better treatment.) Really, the tilting at windmills and whine has become tiresome.

Regardless, as I said, this is pretty much the way it works, regardless of who Ms Lohan is or isn't, or whether we like her or not, whether she turns her life around or not. Joe Blow the fuck kid who smashed up a road sign would go through the same process. But we don't hear much about Joe Blow the fuck kid. Joe Blow the fuck kid gets a bit more privacy.

Damn, can you imagine the uproar if there had been interwebz when Marcia Marcia Marcia Brady was a giant cokehead? :lol:

I see where you're coming from.
And I get what you mean.
I guess how I feel is that Joe Blow didn't make his money from the media.
So Joe Blow gets privacy.
I fucked up my life in private, so I'll not get a magazine deal out of it.

Having no addiction is FAR better than having no money.
But neither the star nor Joe Blow gets that choice.
She doesn't get to pay to magically (as in Harry Potter) remove her addiction - all the money in the world doesn't make that happen.
But neither does Joe Blow get the money to cope with his.

I don't suscribe to the "I paid your wages!" view.
Having worked in the public sector and as a barmaid it's one that rankles. And I don't believe those that court publicity should have every secret of their lives divulged. Like I said before - if she was drinking herself to death behind closed doors I'd villify any publication that tried to intrude. But once you're already in the judicial system things are pretty much common knowledge. And if millions of people have paid to follow you previously, you can bet more millions will want to watch you fall.

Meh, I don't know where I'm going with this.
Don't hate me because I have a drinking problem, hate me because I'm not a millionaire.

Actor Barry Williams wrote in his book that he was stoned during the filming of this scene:

:)

Damn Joe Blow anyway!

Also, just an aside, think about people coking their heads off at Studio 54 back in the day. Certainly there wasn't the market for the kind of sneaky amateur publicity like there is now, but also...could it have been that we just didn't give as much of a fuck? Have our lives become so freaking "safe" and boring that outrage at Lohan or Lohan-likes gives us something to be passionate about? Of course, I find that a bit sad. I also think that if there were not so many who got their panties in a bunch (as some like to say) about such stupid "how does that affect me again?" crap, then there wouldn't be a market and she wouldn't be plastered all over the supposed "news." National Enquirer, maybe, but when did the whole world start giving such a shit?

eta: UT: I mentioned Maureen McCormick after picking up HER book at Odd Lots (for 3 bucks!) It was about what I expected but I did think at the time where was any scandal surrounding her shenanigans? It just wasn't what it is today. :blush: Barry looks stoned, did you see how he was tripping around the bicycle pump?

Groovy, Greg!

You should try reading the daily right-wing tabloids here...
They can froth at the mouth about any subject from Princess Diana, to immigration, to benefits (usually followed by the word "scroungers!") to political correctness to health & safety to... well... just about anything.

It's a new Victorianism.
Which was hypocritical the first time round.
Like no journalist has ever got drunk, snorted coke, had an affair or cheated on their expenses? Ha.

Yeah, like no one expects them to be a "role model." :lol2: