And a little more fuel...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...ef/outrage.jpg

Religion of Peace.

Yeah. Sure.

All you have to do is...
 

...respect their freedom of religion over all of the rest of yours...

Emphasis mine.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060205/...ophet_drawings

"(Denmark's) government was able to avoid reaching this point ... simply through an apology" as requested by Arab and Muslim diplomats, state-run daily Al-Thawra said in an editorial Sunday.

"It is unjustifiable under any kind of personal freedoms to allow a person or a group to insult the beliefs of millions of Muslims," the paper said.

I shouldn't have submitted the post so quickly...

"Insulting the prophet was unacceptable, resentful, and a sign of barbarism," Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said, adding that Tehran planned to take further action.

And our Christian Right hates opera. :rolleyes:

jerry sppringer the opera was bradcast in the UK following the broadcast christian activists issud death threats against BBC corporate employees.

the LIfe of Brian was subject to protests and to distribution restrictions

Pro-life christian groups fire bomb clinics in the US

Westboro baptist church get up to all sorts of antics.

christian death threats against terri schiavo's husband.

catholics in ireland losing the plot and rioting when the orange lodge march though town.

the murder of Alan Berg.

bombings in the US and UK of gay bars...

www.godhatesfags.com

yes clearly it's only those pesky muslims who are extremists.

I have to say I'm with BigV on this one.

To ask where the line needs to be drawn in depicting the prophet is missing the point - the cartoons were NOT stick figures, or single pixel images, or even fruit & veg (although that made me laugh out loud). They were designed to offend and they did their job.

I won't defend anyone carrying placards that advocate death & destruction to strangers based on where they live. But I also don't think it's right to judge others on the behaviour of a minority that share their religion.

Just out of interest, I haven't seen anything in the news about Muslims in Denmark protesting - has anyone else?

Tell me you are saddened if I call you "Joe", and I will respect your wishes.

Tell me you will kill me if I call you "Joe", and "Joe" is your name forever.

The Danes were given death threats if they would publish a cartoon.

So they asked for submissions and printed a ton of them, and explained not only do they not cower to censorship by violence, but they would be the ones to stand up for the principle of free speech in such a situation.

And the fact that Christian nuts exist makes Islamic nuts blameless?

No, but it puts this in perspective a bit, especially for the people screaming that only radical muslims react this way to images they find insulting.

From Wikipedia:
Muslims burned down a consulate on seeing a handful of comics, Christians burned down a theater with the release of a movie and beachgoers in Sydney went on roving patrols and attacked anyone who had a Middle Eastern appearance. Same shit, different day. All of the people that perpetually point out the actions of "the religion of peace" need to note that western culture and religion, often defined as "enlightened" on this board, resort to the same tactics. They're usually the same people that pile up a long list with a title like "where's the outrage?" while not even realizing that the west often shows no outrage even towards local events they are aware of.

Some protests have occured in the world, some have turned violent. This shouldn't cause anyone to apply a generalization to millions upon millions of people. By applying these generalizations, we perpetuate the cycle and it all continues. All the things you point out and hate about them are the same things they point out and hate about you. The only difference is that while they "show no outrage over 9/11" and blow up buildings in the name of their cause, we show no outrage over their issues and send our militaries in to destroy their world. And yes, not all of them are told nor see our military as the wonderful freedom-generating machine you've been told it is, just as you are told on a day-to-day basis that all muslims are out to take away your freedom and hate you for being American. You believe your propaganda, they believe theirs.

I thought this was fairly simple: Muslims in the east are pissed at the western world for being treated as sub-human. Why? They're angry that the laws in Europe repeatedly lead to the arrest of people for hate-speech against jews but do nothing to the people that spew hate-speech towards Islam. Much of Europe treats Muslims as a lower class and all you have to do is look the events in Paris to see how decades of racial/religious tension have been building.

OK, we'll just kill all the violent protestors. The black helicopters can provide the scapel approach suggested by TW. :eyebrow:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5192571

What about the stupid hateful insensitive protestors? Can I just kill him a little bit?

Link to Phelps' gloating over the deaths of more WVa miners.

link to story below
And of course, FauxNews reports that this is the anti-war left disrespecting our brave soldiers. Idiot.

I don't agree with the restriction on free speech this and many other laws in the making would represent. But just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you're unencumbered by the responsibility to use it without consideration to others. Sow hate, reap violence.

The Muslim world has been hewing to this maladaptive approach to the matter since the fourteenth century, when the Holy Qu'ran was officially placed off-limits to non-religious inquiry and/or pokes with a stick. Christianity never successfully pulled off the same stunt Christendom-wide, the Holy Inquisition notwithstanding -- there were always those who could fight the Inquisition off and they did so.

Islam's decline in the sciences, which they had hitherto been world-class players in, dates from that time. Losing free inquiry has borne centuries of marginalization, and now this bitter fruit.

It seems fairly obvious to me that no one likes their particular religion to be villified regardless of the intent; humorous or otherwise.

If Christian society wants to take the moral high ground and suggest that Islamic people who find these types of cartoons offensive are animals etc etc, then perhaps these 'morally right' individuals should excercise a little more understanding in their choice of cartoons.

As to the government of Denmark not apologizing for what has been printed in their paper under the grounds that it's not their responsibility, at that I scoff! Surely if a member of your country causes an international incident and seems likely to be the final catalyst to catastrophic events, then an apology to those who are offended surely is the least that could be offered. Apparently reactions to this have affected only 1.5% of Denmarks international trade. This may not seem like a high price to pay, but perhaps if the burden of that 1.5% falls on the shoulders of only a few companies, I'm sure the citizens of Denmark who have been effected financially would appreciate some understanding from their government...or the paper who printed the cartoons (which in my opinion were in poor taste and obviously meant to be inflamatory) at the least.

Steady the fuck on, that was nowhere near the same. Gangs of lebenese had been terrorising the beach for a long time and badly beat up two life guards. After the rally, where two lebenese were beaten up over 50 cars of lebenese shot and stabbed people and rioted.

Kitsune, all your examples are valid, but one glaring difference in all your examples is the fact that you're comparing mass demonstrations to the actions of a few individuals, or at best small groups. Even the IRA was little more than a band of insurgents. And they were fighting for what they felt was an occupation, and lack of representation. Not against a cartoon. Published in another country.

Religious zealots have absolutely done crazy things in both Islam and Christianity. But you can't call the the two equal. One has crazy people that go to the extreme of the religion. The other has built a power structure designed to keep people in the dark and whip the entire faith into a holy frenzy. The religion of Islam may be peaceful. But the organization is anything but.

Anyhow, the muslims will learn. They'll catch on to the absurdity of extremism... eventually. The problem that the western world is having is that we expect the Middle East to suddenly wake up and join the modern world. They *can't*. Culture doesn't just change overnight.

If anyone wants a comical view of what reads like a prophecy for modern day American efforts in the middle east, just go and read Mark Twain's book, "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court." The parallel's are astounding.

Unfortunately, what the Muslim world is learning is that those comics and George Jr's 'preemption policies' are, to them, part of an attack on Islam. More amazing is how many Americans deny that Muslims have this opinion.

Don't fool yourself for one minute. The United States will eventually attack Iran. Iran knows it which is why they are building nuclear bombs as fast as they can. Islamic people suspect (or know because radical Inman preach it) that the United States will continue to force changes on their society - against their will. George Jr has all but said we will force democracy on those people. Do you think for one minute that these people will welcome anything associated with George Jr? Of course not. Democracy only happens when people first want it. Democracy fails when it is forced upon those people. Need we cite Haiti as a prime example? Or Vietnam? Need we also know how many American policies were changed by George Jr to Israel's advantage with preceived contempt of the PLO?

You may view reform and enlightenment as something that Muslims will eventually learn. I see a slowly growing instability that includes possible nuclear war - complete with radical factors on both side that foster hate. All this was completely avoidable had we stayed with a fundamentally simple and well proven concept called containment. In containment, the local powers fight among themselves to eventually learn god's laws (called science - not called religion). Because of containment, the United States was once highly regarded by 70% of the world. Those people must earn, appreciate, and demand better government (maybe democracy). This cannot happen when preemption forces it upon them. Instead, western powers under pressure from George Jr are slowly coalescing a Muslim hate of westerners. Do you think for one momemt that Iraqis welcome Americans in Iraq? Only the naive preach that lie.

It is a well proven lesson of history. Democracy cannot be imposed. Furthermore, if we try to impose our ways on others - called preemption - those others may instead unite to oppose us. Norwegian troops in Afghanistan were just attacked yesterday over this event. Syrians went on the march attempting to firebomb the Danish embassy. Western embassies in Tehran were attacked. A flurry of right wing Islamic bills that once had little chance of becoming law will probably become law this month in Indonesia. Due to George Jr's righteous preemption policies, then the enemies of logical (secular) thought are uniting. And yes, all this is even making bin Laden look more popular even to some intellectuals. Based upon America's actions this past six years, what bin Laden said has more credibility. United against the comics are chants that include references against George Jr - and against a nation that was once viewed with honor and respect by 70% of the world.

Remember, Iran was once a country with a large reform movement - to remove the burden of Islamic fundamentalism. George Jr almost single handedly destroyed that movement with his myopic 'axis of evil' speech. Did you see how dangerous that speech was when he made it? It not, then ask yourself how many other lessons of history were not comprehended. George Jr all but declared war upon the Iranian people- it should have been that obvious back then to educated Americans. Those comics are but another little piece of a big puzzle that will become religious inspired wars.

And you thought we learned from history - the Thirty Years War, Arab-Israeli conflicts, the Crusades. Apparently not. Once religion becomes anything more than a relationship between one and his god, then hate and violence is promoted by all sides. The United States literally Pearl Harbored another nation - and yet many Americans still don't call that evil or wrong? Just another fact that suggests things will only get worse. Then too many on both sides will start thinking more like Urbane Guerrilla. It will then take massive death and destruction to restore sanity.

US attack Iran? Don't we still owe them an ass-kickin' for the US Embassy hostage event?

Who was president during that fiasco?

Truth is, Iran has more to fear from Israel. Superior training and superior equipment, and they are not afraid to use it.

At least, that's what history taught us.

The originals, plus some new ones, as well as a sampling of comics from the Islamic World.

Make sure you check out Mullahbert.

Which is the next thing that the US needs to learn... when people don't like you the very last thing you want to do is get in everyone's faces and try to impose your will.

It's sad to say it... but there's actually a big similarity between modern day politics and internet forums. It's all changed b/c global media / communications has created a new-found globally aware perspective. To see the similarities just take a look at the modern forum... if someone is well respected, in a position of power, and out-spoken then there's no end to the string of forum trolls that do everything they can to knock the king-of-the-hill off his perch.

The lesson the world needs to learn is you *can't* win against the trolls. There's only two solutions: you either have to own the forum so you can ban on a whim (a la Something Awful), or you just have to keep a low profile. The US can't own the whole world, and we're doing a god-awful job of keeping a low profile. The idea of "keeping a low profile" is why I really like the motto, "walk softly and carry a big stick." Unfortunately our mantra now reads more like "stomp loudly and use a stick on people who complain". You're not going to make many friends that way.

The Muslim nation *will* change for the better, they *will* grow up. Eventually. They'll get smarter, more globally aware... eventually. Will it be before we have a nuke-u-lar war? That I don't know. I hope not, but right now the odds aren't looking too good.

You hope so, I hope. ;)

Following on from what has been said earlier all I can say to this news report I hope this is the first of many..Appears also that one of the guys caught in the press pictures in the London demonstration wearing mock explosives in the guise of a suicide bomber was a convicted drug pusher.He has broke parole conditions and has been sent back to prison.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4690224.stm

U.K. calls for cartoon protest arrests

http://www.upi.com/InternationalInte...6-072249-6608r

...snip...

A man who dressed as a suicide bomber for the demonstration apologized for his behavior, which he acknowledged had deeply offended the families of the July 7 victims.

Omar Khayam, 22, said he had dressed that way to make the point the right to free speech did not include the right to offend.

"But by me dressing the way I did, I did just that, exactly the same as the Danish newspaper, if not worse," he said in a statement.

Just a fact for some here who seem to think that Christianity or Christian society is in any way going to 'teach Muslims a lesson' or 'force them to grow up', or any of the other suggestions made here in this thread; In case you're not aware, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and already makes Christianity a minority (even Buddists and Hindus outnumber Christians), so while you're sitting there with all your wealth, ask yourself how much good it'll do you if you continue to antagonize the majority.

http://cellar.org/2006/rel_pie.gif

via adherents

Are you serious? Thats one of the cornerstones of the American Way(tm). :lol:

The antics of JC's followers in 2005, a round up from Harper's Magazine:

2005 Jan 11 It was announced that no one may carry a cross along the 2005 inaugural parade route.[The News-Herald]»

Jan 21 A cartoonist was sentenced by a Greek court to six months in prison for depicting Jesus as a pot-smoking hippie.»[Ananova]

Feb 14 The last witness to the miraculous appearance of the Virgin Mary at Fatima died, and[The Daily Telegraph]»

Mar 20 Seventy-eight percent of Americans believe that Christ rose from the dead.[Newsweek]»

Apr 17 One-foot-tall talking Jesus, David, Mary, and Moses dolls will be sold in June.[Messengers of Faith]»

Apr 22 A Fresno, California, man was standing trial for killing nine of his children, seven of whom he fathered with his own daughters and nieces. “Jesus was a womanizer,” he explained.[CourtTV.com]»

Jun 18 A nun in Romania, undergoing exorcism, died after she was tied to a cross, gagged, and left alone for three days in a cold room. “I don't understand why journalists are making such a fuss about this,” said the priest who organized the exorcism.[BBC News]»

Aug 9 In Jerusalem the biblical Pool of Siloam, where Jesus cured a blind man, was discovered by sewer workers.[Post-Gazette.com]»

Oct 6 The Catholic Church of Scotland published a guide to the Bible stating that the account of creation in the book of Genesis is “symbolic.” The virgin birth of Jesus, however, is still considered to be fact.[The Scotsman]»

Dec 6 A Funyun shaped like the Virgin Mary cradling the baby Jesus sold online for $609.[The Miami Herald]»

Dec 19 For the second time this year, someone stole the life-sized Jesus from a nativity scene in Cincinnati, Ohio, although this time they left behind baby Jesus's leg.[The Canton Rep]»

At least Christian Fundamentalists haven't burned down a foreign embassy - yet! Oh, except for the ones in Baghdad at the beginning of the war and those don't count. The Bible tells me so. :headshake

From your link UT:

So what if those Christians aren't practicing. Neither are the Danish cartoonists I'll wager.

Whether they're practicing or not is moot don't you think? The only point I was trying to make is that Christianity is not the religion of the world. It doesn't even have the largest following according to some sources.

Freedom of speech is not a Christian notion.

No it's not. What's your point?

My point is that your original post #87 was wrong in almost every way.

So far you've questioned one point which still seems to be up for debate and possibly always will be. What else would you like to argue?

Ever notice that these tough guys in Arab dress always have hoods covering their faces (and often their entire head)? If they are so tough, why not take off the rag so that the world can see their faces...

If there's no shame in what they do, surely they'd display their faces with pride! After all, their God fully endorses what they do! Who cares what infidels think?

If I'm not antagonizing the majority, then I'm not doing my job right.

Equality and equal rights are not just about the desires of the majority.

Islam is the "Fastest Growing" religion (although there are a few others that would dispute that) because their objective is to conquer, not to convince.

Am I reading things right here, btw? I'm getting the impression that somehow Muslims burning down foreign embassies is somehow Bush's fault. I just want to make sure I'm picking up the proper (misguided) subtext.

Sometimes the fault actually is in THEM, and not US, yah?

In fact it's not a fact. It's an opinion shared by you and uncited sources. Opinions, like your own statements.Opinion? Wild ass guess? Source?Besides buying a military presence that can turn the world into a sheet of glass?
While I'm of the mind that it's not a good idea to go into the lions cage and twist his tail, I'll be damned if I'll alow him to dictate what I do in my cage.
I'm also of the opinion that the people in the news, self described islamic faithful, that riot, loot, murder over insults to their faith (real or imagined) are nothing but common criminals. I've no proof that they are even in fact, muslims, other than their claims quoted by the press, but I don't care one way or the other. The only thing I care about is their public behavior which is unacceptable. :headshake

So Aliantha, got your burqua on yet? Better get yourself down to the local mosque for a good caning, you wouldn't want to antagonise them.

That's not very fair, jag. How is she supposed to get to the local mosque when she is not allowed to drive? And don't forget that she has to turn in all her diplomas and go through memory cleansing since no woman is allowed to be smarter than the dumbest man.

Oh, come on, Wolf! Aren't we being just a little disingenuous here? You don't think all that "collateral" damage in Iraq might not have just mildly upset some folks of Middle East origin and Muslim faith? Take an open wound and lightly sprinkle a touch of salt on it and what do you get? I'm not saying that I don't think the response to the cartoon was as bizarre and extreme as everybody else does. I'm just saying.

When the good people of Iraq and Iran do not take enough interest in their own government to thwart the efforts of those who would turn their countries into a terrorist state, the removal of the infectious cancer of terrorism, female degradation, oppression, slaughter of their own people, and utter hi-jacking and corruption of a peaceful religion must be forcefully done and will always cause some collateral damage. Whether the forceful cancer surgery is done by internal cou d'etat or external intervention, the removal of the penetrating tentacles of the oppressors is seldom easy or painless.

Perhaps we need to help the terrorists to accomplish their ultimate goal which is to quickly achieve martyrdom so they can have 72 virgins in the afterlife. Apparently their wives and daughters are not part of their eternal aspirations being deemed as less than human in this life and less than that in the next life. These terrorists achieve martyrdom when they sacrifice their lives by blowing themselves up such that innocents around them also die. Obviously these terrorists are the greatest obscenity in all the world because their corruption of Islam makes them alone the greatest threat to true Islam.

We can help them achieve their eternal goals by contributing money and explosives to make the next step easy for them. Then we can help them gather themselves into one place and in one majestic stroke blow themselves up. Thus they will have truly conquered the world's greatest threat to Islam. Then the true protectors of Islam, those common people who really believe and practice its peaceful concepts can worship in peace being finally unshackled from the teachings of corrupt clerics and imams who teach the children to hate, devalue their lives, and murder.

Welcome to the Cellar, UG! :p

Wolf, I think there's a difference betwen antagonizing the majority and speaking up for the minority.

Bruce, if you want sources I'll give you sources, however, we all know there's a source to prove or disprove every argument. Sometimes even in the same article. *See post #90 and #91.

Jaguar and Beestie, is that the best you can do? Make ridiculous suggestions?

I think it's been pointed out already that there are extremists in any religion and I don't condone these actions by anyone regardless of what God they worship.

What I do object to is a gung-ho attitude displayed by so many people of the Christian faith who think it's a fore-gone conclusion that we're going to win this campaign we're currently on. Just because Christianity has been a signature of 'civilized society' for a couple of thousand years doesn't make it the only truth.

While people in the west have condemned countries in the middle east for their holy wars for the last hundred years and far beyond, it seems to me that the 'coalition of the willing' has embarked on their own 'holy war' against a religion they find threatening to their own way of life.

Of course, we're not in Iraq because of Islam are we? Aren't we there to bring democracy and find WMD? Hmmm...not sure now. Maybe it's to find Bin Laden...but apparently he's hanging out somewhere else now. Gosh...I really can't remember. Let's just see if I can read this book while it's upside down...

apparently one personality wasn't enough for tw?

No, but for some reason I'm not sure anything else would work.

I've always known where bin Laden is. He hiding out in a closet with Idi Bitty Amin (of Uganda) at the Conehead's house. You know. Those creatures from France. Just another reason to hate the French.

Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone that's condemning the Islamic rioters are Christians.
You don't have to be religious to loathe hoodlums, thugs and arsonists. :eyebrow:

In my own unguided thinking, you are in the majority. Silent or otherwize.

<a href="http://www.mohammeddance.com">Latest salvo: fired.</a>

yep it turned into a rant....apologies in advance
 

OK I am late to this party - but I read along.... my exception to the above quote and other of your posts is that I keep getting the feeling that it is only Christians who are condeming the actions of those rioters and terrorists, and that it is only Christians who are fighting the war in Iraq... not so -
the American people, as a whole, are fighting and condeming the thugs for their actions...including Jews, Buddists, Islamists, Hindis, Atheists, Agnostics, and even those woefully (IMO) misunderstood believers in the Church of the eternal Faming Goat & Boatswain ministries....we are NOT comdeming the extremists for being MUSLIM - we ARE condeming their actions....

Please keep in mind that it is not the MUSLIM religion that is being opposed... it's the terroristic mayhem a group of people who are Muslim uphold and then attribute their actions to the Will of GOD -

Um... color me stupid but I swear it was a extremeist Muslim sect of terrorists that came to AMERICA and killed innocents- we are just cleaning up the mess...

Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia’s home residence and at the USIS library in Manila.

Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

PUK Kidnapping, September 13, 1996: In Iraq, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) militants kidnapped four French workers for Pharmaciens Sans Frontieres, a Canadian United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) official, and two Iraqis.

Philippines Hostage Incident, May 27, 2001: Muslim Abu Sayyaf guerrillas seized 13 tourists and 3 staff members at a resort on Palawan Island and took their captives to Basilan Island. The captives included three U.S. citizens: Guellermo Sobero and missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham. Philippine troops fought a series of battles with the guerrillas between June 1 and June 3 during which 9 hostages escaped and two were found dead. The guerrillas took additional hostages when they seized the hospital in the town of Lamitan. On June 12, Abu Sayyaf spokesman Abu Sabaya claimed that Sobero had been killed and beheaded; his body was found in October. The Burnhams remained in captivity until June 2002.

Death of "the Lion of the Panjshir", September 9, 2001: Two suicide bombers fatally wounded Ahmed Shah Massoud, a leader of Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance, which had opposed both the Soviet occupation and the post-Soviet Taliban government. The bombers posed as journalists and were linked to al-Qaida. The Northern Alliance did not confirm Massoud’s death until September 15.

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Homeland, September 11, 2001: Two hijacked airliners crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Soon thereafter, the Pentagon was struck by a third hijacked plane. A fourth hijacked plane, suspected to be bound for a high-profile target in Washington, crashed into a field in southern Pennsylvania. The attacks killed 3,025 U.S. citizens and other nationals. President Bush and Cabinet officials indicated that Usama Bin Laden was the prime suspect and that they considered the United States in a state of war with international terrorism. In the aftermath of the attacks, the United States formed the Global Coalition Against Terrorism.

Attack on a Church in Pakistan, October 28, 2001: Six masked gunmen shot up a church in Bahawalpur, Pakistan, killing 15 Pakistani Christians. No group claimed responsibility, although various militant Muslim groups were suspected.

And the list goes on...
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm

Of course I feel these extremists are threatening my way of life - they ARE.
this rant brought to you by the following sponsors.... :worried:

Well, sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference on this board when you see wonderful posts like this:

So please excuse us if we have a difficult time seeing the difference, especially when there hasn't been any protests/violence/etc from American muslims or in any civilized western nation, for that matter. But, ah, I guess the solution is to just "ship 'em home!" Just to be safe. Just in case they happen to be violent. Or something. Yeah.

Funny, that. You are aware that the biggest threat to your way of life, currently, comes more from your local federal government that any distant, flag-burning protester, right? You are aware that your fear is the only thing setting any constraints on your freedom and not some sign holder half a world away? Your own government has already agreed that your speech needs to be limited in order to be sensitive to the religions of others.

Extreme Muslims? The only people changing your way of life are wholesome, god-fearing Christians.

Oh, yeah! Finally! Some talk with some local muslims at USF on the matter!

Their view was: Yes, all the cartoons were insulting, mostly because they depicted something you're not supposed to depict. But both also agreed that several were funny and to the point, and didn't take it particularly personally.

Can you believe it? An Iraqi and an Iranian found some of them funny. One of the girls even pulled up the images on her laptop while in class. On looking at them, she didn't melt, scream, explode, or anything! Unbelievable!

The professor of the Middle East Pol Sci class pretty much stated that the protests and riots are "largely the exploitation of an ignorant population".

Considering that he is Tunisian, well...

Christian? Me? Jesus christ woman get a goddamn grip. This is about freedom of speech, as close as possible to absolute freedom of speech as possible. My freedom to draw cartoons of mohammed of fucking a goat or jesus dressed a pot smoking hippie. It's a freedom a lot of people died for and one that is damn close to my heart.

The idea that halfwit such as yourself kowtowing to islamo-facists, blithely giving up one of pillars of western civilisation makes me sick. Ask anyone here, I tend towards the left and the dovish side of politics but this ridiculous farce over a couple of cartoons and the sickening response of fools such as yourself is just too much.

OK, the problem with this whole situation is that no one seems to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff anymore. Yes of course we all know that the original 9/11 actions taken by Bin Laden and his cronies instigated A fight, but it's not the one currently being argued.

This could turn into a discussion on the rights and wrongs of the war in Iraq which has somehow become a cross between 'the war on terror' and 'bringing democracy to Iraq'. The problem is that the story has become so twisted and convoluted that it's hard to tell who's right and who's wrong. The problem is that no one seems to really know what anyone's truly fighting for anymore, and no one seems to know when it's going to end because people keep adding fuel to an already well lit fire.

The supporters of this conflict claim that they're democratizing Iraq and fighting terrorism. So be it! If that's the truth then good on them. The problem is that obviously not everyone in the world would like to see peace, including some members of Islam, some Christians and some stray dogs who don't believe in any God etc etc etc.

The problem is, protests like this happen because of a situation that many of these people are not to blame for. In fact, the majority of them are not to blame for any of it. They're just sick and tired of being persecuted because they believe in Allah and not God. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because some of their members are fruitloops. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because of the way they dress or how they look. They're sick and tired of being persecuted full stop.

Even the gentlest creature will react with violence if you taunt it enough.

Bruce, I found this information here:

Considering that these arguments seem fairly weighted and are from what would appear to be reliable sources, it would seem clear that my first claim that was correct. I will concede that Christianity is not outnumbered yet, but if these figures are true, we're only one generation from that becomming a fact.

The rest of the site is worth looking at. Some of the figures are surprising.

The only ones that are pesecuting these people are their religious leaders. They are being duped into believing the Jews and Christians of the World are plotting their demise......the west is keeping them from living the good life.
If I insult Allah and he can't handle it, or me, then he is a pissant Deity not worthy of the title.
If they were true believers they wouldn't be threatened by anyones opinion of Allah. They would be secure in their faith, and Allah, as I suspect most Muslims, including the ones in Kitsune's last post, are. The problem is those Muslims are very, very silent.
These rioters are nothing but scumbag hooligans that debase the Muslim faith, and deserve to me stomped :footpyth: