That girl will make alot of money, later on, though. Have you ever had spinning head?

I'm wondering how many Cellar people were brought up this way - were your parents so involved in running your life as to tell you what to do and what not to do? Especially for something so minuscule as to direct what games you could play, what books you could read, what movies you could watch, who you could be friends with, when you had to be home, and so on?

That just seems like extreme micromanaging to me.

I had a curfew, was supposed to only go to PG or G rated movies and there were very clear boundaries as to acceptable speech and behaviors - Yup, Abso-fuckin-lutely!

And an excellent way to make sure your kids never learn anything.
Until they go to college and start injecting coke directly into their wang.

Somethings were unbelievably strict (my curfew was 6pm), and others were very permissive (read any book I wanted to, no problem with bbses, etc.)
Generally, they wanted to protect me from people (especially boys!) and not from information.

Hmmm, interesting. thanks all so far.

So here's the deal..... i was working in the thrift store when a 1970s ouija board came in. I have a friend totally redoing her 1972 house in 1970s style. so it's a given I was going to buy it.

Now we were brought up in traditional UK style of Ouija = unknown devil worshipping thingy = bad and IIRC, I've never even seen a board IRL before. but we're unsupersticious atheists and i remembered that I'd seen it described as the "perfect sleepover game" somewhere, so i asked the assistant manager what she thought (she has a slightly older daughter and she said "perfect". Hebe saw it and was all like (;)) "awesome, can we play it at my party?... so i asked beest and he was all like "eeek ouja bad, no wait, it's nonsense, but people will burn crosses on our lawn.....

so I asked you lot. seeing as most of you are American so have a better idea of how it's perceived over here.

So, what's the verdict?

Its a kids game and no more. Do it!

Dunno, I have more pressing decisions to make. probably to ask parents as kids arrive, alongside the movie rating thing. or -given one set of parents- we might not bother and just site them all down in front of teletubbies. ...oh wait, no! There's Tinky Winky to consider.... :lol:

Parenting a baby is 100% micromanaging, and that number ideally approaches zero by the time the kid is 18. But the whole time in between is a gray area that is going to involve a certain amount of restrictions on all the things you mentioned. Do you feel an 8-year-old should be able to go out at night as they please? Should a 4-year-old thumb through an incredibly violent and bloody graphic novel? The restrictions come down one by one over the years, but everything has to be tailored to the specific child. There was, for example, a television show just recently that we told the older kids they weren't allowed to watch, but not because we think we can keep them from the content--it's because those specific children have a problem with emulating what they see on TV. We have made it clear to them that when their behavior is not a problem, then we will know they are responsible enough to watch the show. In my opinion, they are too old to be acting the way they are, and it disappoints me to have to micromanage them in this particular way, but evidence has shown it's still necessary.

That kind of encapsulates what I grew up with, and what I try to practice with my children: you get as much responsibility as you can handle, and not more or less. Throwing them in the deep end to fend for themselves is just as irresponsible as fiercely sheltering them--in the Ouija board case, for example, if a child had shown a previous inability to handle "scary" things (say, having nightmares for days following a moderately suspenseful movie, or genuinely believing in ghosts or monsters,) then I would be hesitant to let them play. Not because it's "bad," but because that particular kid isn't ready for it.

Is a ouija board "scary" though? or only if you tell them it is? how many 11-year-olds have been told it is a scary thing?

*shrug* You "contact ghosts" with it, right? That's what we did with it when we were kids. I certainly would hope that my kid would have a better head on their shoulders by that age than to be scared of that sort of thing, but just earlier in this thread there were several people who mentioned being terrified of their first experiences with it.

I am a scientist, engineer and an atheist, I don't believe that people have a soul so logically there can't be ghosts or heaven or hell etc.

but...

I have just have a gut feeling that says no, :headshake
we did do it when I was a kid, and got messages.

At the very least it just seems dumb as a party game.

:yelsick:

My friends and I used to play with ouija boards when I was at sixth form college. We did it most lunchtimes for about two months. We revelled in it and scared the shit out of ourselves regularly. One time, I ended up half convinced that an evil spirit (named Red) had followed me home (mum was away so I was alone in the house). That was less fun :P

In terms of childhood limitations, there weren't many that I recall. I had strict limits on how far I was allowed to stray from the house, and mum was never happy with me going off to fairgrounds with my friends (she had a fear of fairground abductions). But beyond that not much at all. I suppose there were a couple of tv programmes they didn't want me watching, but none that I wanted to see.

Books were pretty much ok. I only recall one time when mum didn't want me reading a book which had done the rounds of Dad my big brother and her. I was 12 at the time and the book was about a woman who'd been severely abused and developed a split personality (it was also made into a rather shocking film).

Telling me that the book was too old for me and that I wasn't allowed to read it was basically a guarantee that I would :P I waited until I had the house to myself for the afternoon, stole the book from mum's room (she was half way through it at the time) and read it in one session. It was brilliant, it totally gripped me and didn't disturb me. I still recall the feeling of slightly naughty luxury as I lay on our new sofa reading a forbidden book, my bare feet touching the velvety smooth velour. Yey. Must have got through a whole box of Rice Krispies as I read :)

I don't recall any other obvious examples. I daresay there were tv programmes that were switched over without me being aware at the time, and no doubt subjects that weren't discussed when i was there; but it was done with enough subtlety that I didn't notice. More noticable was the embarrassment factor of anything remotely sexual coming on tv when dad was in the room lol. But that was a wider family thing, rather than just me.

eta: It was a true story. The film was called Cybil but I can't recal if the book was also.

You mean I could have been playing Apples to Apples instead of the Ouija! I feel so cheated.

j/k but The Apples game does sound fun indeed!

It is lots of fun.

It is quite possibly the best group game in existence. Well, except for an orgy, but that's a whole different kind of party.

Since none of us actually have a 100% true understanding of reality, (although we each like to think we do for the most part) and since there is a strong value placed upon a parent being the custodian of their children's upbringing; I would never make a potentially perceived "spiritual decision" for another parents child. I don't see this issue as one of legitimacy of the board, but rather mutual respect between human adults.

Although many here are atheists, there are also people here of different spiritual beliefs including witchcraft of probably different branches and schools. I know some into magic who are into the real serious stuff, and its not always just a bunch of rainbows and unicorns.

I would like to hear from them what they think any actual spiritual potential is from a Ouija board.

This statement made me think. And it brought about an idea of what the "heart of the matter" may be.

What is at issue is the judgment call regarding what is appropriate or not. Since it is logically impossible for each of us to cross-check our values with every other person we encounter; it is necessary for each of us to make countless of such judgment calls throughout the course of each day.

At stake here: something potentially perceived to be a spiritual matter. The known facts of the matter is that it is literally a piece of cardboard, produced and packaged by a toy manufacturer, for entertainment purposes. The judgment call is what to do when confronted with a situation where someone attaches a spiritual significance to this object.

Our tendancy towards tolerance of others and their belief systems tells us that we should respect that notion, even though we don't understand or agree with it. However, there is a larger perspective to take: how does society benefit, or not, by the behavior we passively encourage through our non-participation?

We have witnessed, throughout history, that rampant superstition is destructive to society. People kill black cats because they're afraid of witchcraft causing diseases, whereas the cats were controlling the rodent population and therefore disease runs like wildfire, bringing about a deadly pandemic. IGNORANCE IS DESTRUCTIVE.

By even entertaining the notion that a PIECE OF CARDBOARD may be a serious, supernatural phenomenon, we encourage in people those same backwards, superstitious belief systems. We are literally encouraging a destructive ignorance.

If someone holds ignorant beliefs, they need to be confronted and shamed. We all benefit when ignorance is opposed. This is not something that somebody else will do for you--it is YOUR responsibility. YOU are building the world that your children will inherit.

DO WE WANT ANOTHER "DARK AGE" OF IGNORANCE AND SUPERSTITION? . . . Don't just look the other way.

Well we went for not because beest is not comfortable with it, and I can't really see the entertainment value so felt no need to object to his objection. Thanks for the interesting discussion :)

We should call him to confirm this, though.


What is the number of the Beest?

Here it is.

Ouija for 11 year olds
 

Absolutely not suitable. Indeed, not suitable for anyone. Think of it's purpose. Those who use it do so with a belief, no matter how jovial they regard that belief. Once one opens oneself up to evil, evil comes into your existence, it becomes real for oneself.
Suitable entertainment for 11 year old girls is hanging out, trying makeup for the first time, having slumber parties and all that general 'developing relationships' thing.

diameter or length?

I know very few of you will agree with me, but:

No. Ouija boards creep me the fuck out. It's my personal belief that there are Other Things Out There--call them spirits, angels, afrits, Thebans, or whatever. Non-human, we can't ascertain their purposes or even whether they are "good" or "evil" according to our norms. Why take the risk?

I don't think the average gaggle of 11 year old girls, or group of anybody, really, would be successful in contacting them through a bit of cardboard and plastic, but the tiny possibility still freaks me out.

So, no.

No Do Not alow not good
It's not a toy

:smack:

The only way to settle this question is with a seance.

I suppose you think that's really silly. Perhaps it is. Nevertheless . . .

I was trying to be funny. Maybe this will work better:

Just meet the parents of the visiting kids as they arrive.
"We've got three activities lined up for the kids: freebasing crack, webcam strip-poker, and the ouija board. You may veto one."

I thought it was only for 11 year olds. I guess I need to go back and read the rules.

The really cool aspect of stuff like the ouija board, regardless of your beliefs of what may or may not really exist, is that it opens up your imagination. And that is just as important as thinking logically, if not more so.

The right answer is to play the game with the kids and ask the Ouija board what it thinks of itself. And direct the answer.

B - U - L - L - S - H - I - T

That's no fun.

As somone currently looking closely at historical gender constructions, I find that a fascinating sentence.

*smiles* welcome to the Cellar, Goddit! Nice to meet you:)

Good question. Good point. I'd like to know too although I imagine them along with me are sitting on their principles.


good point and a funny as heck one too!

Likewise, one should never step on cracks, for the protection of maternal spines.

oh, absolutely!

Monster, it wasn't for not at at all.

I very much enjoyed this mature adult discussion in all of its many nuances. :cool:
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The rest of this is not directed toward anyone in particular. :)

Apparently not, there are apparently many adults using this "piece of cardboard" for ver real, and serious spiritual purposes.
I found these statements at Amazon.com.

- Aleister Crowley no less!

This is an example of posts made about books relating to Ouija boards by practitioners of Ouija.

My points are twofold, one, that we when faced with a situation of which we know little should possibly lend an open ear to those who may be better informed.
Secondly, simply because we don't think something is true, or real; doesn't automatically it so.

Belittling something can make us feel more comfortable, safe, and secure; but are we actually?

The longer I live, the more I realize there is much that exists that I know little or nothing about.

I think you said it much better than I could, Ruminator. My aversion to Ouija ("spirit") boards comes from personal experience, and I have had a longtime interest in the paranormal, but wish to remain merely an observer. But I'm curious - so I asked Dave Considine about them. His reasons and recommendations against them was good enough for me. I believe they can be dangerous. Not are, but can be. And I've had a sense of that danger. No thanks. For some of us, the unseen world is just unseen. Maybe there's a difference between people's sensitivities?

Meaning funny as in ironic since the target age is 8 to 11. I am not sure how fun 'pretending' to conjour up spirits is suppose to be. What if on the off chance something did happen?

Maybe Christains are right and maybe practicing witches are right. Maybe to this they would both agree.

I still think Wolf's idea of Apples to Apples sounds like alot more fun. * sigh * deprived child :mad:

"I can call spirits from the vasty deep!"

"So can I, so can any man; but will they come when called?"

This thread leaves me speechless.

I can call spirits from the vasty deep!
But it has more effect when I ask the barkeep.

I'll consult my Ouija board to see what you should be saying.

:lol:

ha! about half of us think the other half is crazy!

Who'd a thunk it? :devil: ;) Though I just saw something much worse than a Ouija board - that huge caterpillar. Maybe we should let the 11 year olds play with them instead of buying stuff, eh?

[no, I don't know why caterpillars give me the creeps. Perhaps a bad experience in a previous life? :rolleyes: ]

I'd rather have 11 year old girls playing with a Ouija board than with Bratz dolls. Now THOSE are creepy!

Wow, I'm amazed at how many adults think there is something to Ouija. Not dissin' you; I certainly have some odd views on some things, but I just didn't expect it.

(What happens is some smart-ass kid like me directs the board for maximum freak-out of the nervous nellies involved... they never recover.) At least, that's how I did it when I was a kid. No, I'm not sorry, why do you ask?
:p

I'm not sure who you are responding to. Maybe the 8 other people that said 'no way'.

I don't understand why those who do not believe in ghosts would want their kids to pretend to talk to them nor would I understand why people who do believe in ghosts would want a small kid to meet one. Seems whacked either way.

There are so many fun games out there. I wonder what the allure is to Ouija?

So what messages did you have the board cough up?

It's because of the potential for danger, like chanting "Bloody Mary" three times while standing in front of the bathroom mirror in the dark.

Which is what the girls will end up doing whether or not they get the Ouija Board.

It's slumber party tradition.

It's just like Santa Claus. Even parents who don't believe in Him still pretend He exists. Think about the children!

I may be paranoid, but is there a tone there?

Yeah, I'm talking about adults who believe that you can contact ghosts through a board game. This is not commentary on whether or not ghosts exist: it's the ridiculous notion that a board game has even the slightest possibility of conjuring one up.

That's the beauty of it when you're a kid: just maybe, you think. Once I hit teenager I knew better.

As I said: for sheer creepiness, Bratz dolls are ten times creepier than a piece of cardboard. Big giant misshapen heads with impossibly giant eyeballs on a little plastic body: they look like those creepy Olsen twins. :lol2:

Exactly, I played Ouija because my friends got ahold of one in the 5th grade. It was ilicit so therefore exciting.

I can't imagine a parent pulling one out and saying, "hey try to reach the dead would ya!" ;)


lol HLJ

Usually that someone (nobody liked) was going to die, or the boy of the month did/didn't really like them, or so-and-so's mom was going to have another kid (I got that one right)... And once, I predicted that the answer to the second question on the math test would be 4.5. I was wrong on that one. :eyebrow:

And yet that's exactly what this thread was about. A parent wondering if they should pull out a ouija board as a planned party activity for kids.

I played with them once or twice as a kid going over to friends' houses, but it was never the parent proposing we play the game. I figured out pretty quickly that you could push the thing around yourself to make it say what you wanted to. The game became who would push harder.

I played a lot of games that would get the parents in trouble if they were the ones who came up with them. "You show me yours, and I'll show you mine" is one that comes to mind. Oh, and "burn the stump out with gasoline" is another. "Launch the froggies" was a mean one. I think kids had a lot less supervision back then.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the first time I ever tried a ouija board it was a homemade affair that my bro knocked up and mum played along.

Mind you. Mum liked all that scary stuff. I remember after watching some alien movie or other, we (in this context 'we' almost always refers to me, my bro and mum) went alien hunting. Was well past midnight and the three of us and the dog bundled into the car to go driving about the country lanes on the outskirts of town. We were armed with torches, cheese spread sandwiches and a flask of hot tea (obviously....). I think I was probably about 10 or so.

That was such a fun night. We went down this one lane and it was pitch black, narrow and winding, the only light the two beams from the car; and all that did was cut a little way into the darkness. All of a sudden there's something in the road up ahead. No word of a lie it looked like a body. lol. was some black binliners blown half way into the road. The dog was going mental. Took us a few seconds and a slow approach to realise what it was:P

One brilliant thing about my mum: she really knew how to encourage flights of imaginations and total immersion in whatever fantasy we engaged in.


[eta] it might complete the picture if I add that the car in question was a tiny battered up Mini estate, with no heat. Just three of us and a dog and plumes of breath.

That's a beautiful image, Dana.

In Australia we just go toad hunting.

The aliens aren't half as much fun here.