I don't see why Ali's been dragged into this tbh.

Dana, what is your take on the whole Wiki thing? From UK point of view.

*thinks*

I have some mixed feelings about this. My instinct is generally to support the whistleblower. My general view of wikileaks is that the people involved are performing a necessary and important civil act.

That said: I also believe that ambassadorial and diplomatic communiques are a special case. The channels of communication between various governments really need to stay open and viable for the good of all.

So... some of the stuff that's been published I think is very valuable and shines a light onto practices and attitudes amongst our governing elites which require fundamental change. Other stuff, and quite a lot of this recent material just stirs the pot unnecessarily and without adding to the public good. At the same time it introduces an element of mistrust in those channels of communication and potentially an element of mistrust between the different parties themselves.

Maybe she has that notification thing monnie was talking about in another thread. Remember that? Like if someone is calling you an asshole, you get an email.
There is no reason Dana. Not a valid or good one anyway.

No, see, that doesn't work: Henry showed up not because of some miraculous email notification system or ESP. He came around when I told him what an ass you are. He just couldn't help himself. :lol2:

(You know WAY better, you just like to pretend and cry.)

I get the feeling that most people have no idea what Wikileaks is or who it is.

Julian Assange is on the board and has become the spokesman for Wikileaks as director (and appears to be taking the majority of the heat), but he isn't alone in the decision making. Other members of the board include:

Phillip Adams - Australian film producer, writer, broadcaster

Wang Youcai - one of the student leaders in the Tiananmen Square protests

Ben Laurie - creator of The Apache Software (encryption)

Wang Dan - another leader of the Tiananmen Square protests and leader of the Chinese Democracy Movement

Chico Whitaker - an exiled Brazilian social activist who also has served on the advisory board of UNESCO

Wikileaks has revealed much in the way of governmental and industry corruption, as well civil rights violations. They have won several awards. The list of documents/reports they have released is long and varied.

WikiLeaks states that its "Whether or not I agree with the release of the Iran war documents or the US diplomatic cables, I personally believe that the only way to minimize corruption and civil rights violations is to have a way for the truth to be told. I do not agree with hiding or supressing facts. The truth has nothing to fear.

Yes, I'm aware that this position will be unpopular here. Please keep your guns holstered.

Thanks for the board member links Stormie.

I started research yesterday and only got as far as manning, so I appreciate the work there.

Yeh I know monnie was full of shit when she made that claim and I was pretty sure you cried to ole henry about what a dick I was being.
Thanks for confirming that monnie lied. Not that I needed it nor any validation from you.

You thought she was serious? Wow, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed by a long shot, are you?

An email notification when your name gets mentioned. Bwaahahahahaaa...yeah, you thought that was real. Just like your feigned innocence (one trick: two ponies) of why Henry showed up.

Man, you pots call kettles "liars" and "off the rockers" an awful lot, don't you?

Oh, I didn't cry to Henry. I merely laughed at what a dickhead you are, and he responded because he was in complete agreement over your dickheadedness (though his words were for sure more eloquent and encompassing than mine.) We had quite a chuckle over the steam rising out of your ears and your sputtering and flailing.

Not to mention your admission of your various stalking activities. Creepy. *shudder* You look worse by the minute!

:lol2:

I agree with you for the most part. but, I dunno how to say this - I want the truth/facts to be told as well, but where do you draw the line or don't you. I mean to what benefit is it knowing that one delegate thinks another country's leader is a jerk. Or that privately one country is trying to support what it thinks is best for the region while not trying to damage its relationship with another... I dunno maybe I'm having difficulty writing what I'm thinking because it doesn't make sense. :eyebrow:

It's just like a personal relationship. While open communication is preferred and best in most cases, there are just some things that are best kept to oneself for the relationship's sake.

The more I read, and correlate it my head, the more it seems my initial anger at this insult was disproportionate to the actual damage done.

However, I'm still offended by this foreigners insult to the US, and if I ever meet him, he's in deep shit.;)

And....something useful may come of this:

Whistleblower Bill

Great analogy.
This is apparently on the tip of the iceberg there is more coming. Just sit and stew on it for a bit.
That'd be nice. I wonder if they pay as well :cool:

Michael Yon's piece was reposted today.
I think there is a lot of validity in what Sec'y Gates has to say.


continued here

I 'showed up' because I was never away. Just because someone doesn't post doesn't mean they're not reading stuff.

I'm pretty sick of your bullshit Brianna. Clearly, plenty of others are too. I've not said one word to you which could be in any way construed as nasty or malicious for over a year and probably more like two. I just don't know why you have to hold onto this grudge you have against me. It's not healthy and it serves no purpose.

Really, seriously, how long are you going to keep this up for?

Cast or caste, do you think?

damn, that silent e. Now it's invisible too!:eek:


:p:

The soldier violated UCMJ & US Title 18 when he transferred classified documents from SIPR to NIPR. Wikileaks employees/board members can be charged as accessories after the fact or for the actual distribution of classified documents (many of these were SECRET//NOFORN). Jurisdiction was established when the soldier transfered the data from TOC or SCIF and it is regardless where the physical location of recepients was.

In other words, they are in very deep shit.

As should have everyone involved in leaking the Pentagon Papers.

How screwed up is security when a Private in Afghanistan has access to all Pentagon and State Department cables. If he could do it, then they were not secret. And so the question is how many other countries were reading this stuff before WikiLeaks got it.

Most of the stuff I have been reading is basically common knowledge. Material only confirms what most already knew. The real Secret stuff was withheld. In reality, "Secret" means virtually anyone has access. Truely secret material starts at higher security ratings. Those are being withheld by WikiLeaks.

Once we eliminate hype, well, the world is now viewing international politics in a new light. The world now has a better idea which countries have been lying and which ones were actually being honest. For many nations, this means increased credibility.

If prosecuting anyone, start with the fools who simply gave everyone access to everyone - including a US Army Private in Afghanistan.

Reported was that China probably has every plan for every American nuclear warhead. When the accusation was made, it sounded preposterous. If a Private in Afghanistan has access to all this, well then yes, China probably does have all those weapons plans.

Who is trying to divert attention by hyping blame upon Wikileaks?

Its Bush's fault. No, seriously. It was during his administration that the sharing of information was decided and implemented.

This thread could have been a clone titled:

Yet more keen leaks one might want to share

Oh well, maybe for the next big security breach.

Everytime I see this thread title, I have to pee.

You got a wicked leak?

Yeah, for like...a weeky, almost a monthy.

Well, 'tis the season to wear a peecoat.

The soldier has access to the data via SIPR, just like any other analyst. SIPR only in a secured internet for documents/media with a SECRET or less classification. This soldier has a TS/SCI clearance requiring an in depth background check that most of the public can never pass. After getting the clearance, he is then "read-on" for access. None of this is taken lightly.

Large amounts of classified materials are posted on SIPR in order to facilitate analysis. It is the junior enlisted analyst who is tasked with datamining & preliminary link analysis or trend identification.

Recently seen in a Charlie Chan movie:

I go wiky leaky. 'K boss.

Manning, Bradley E. E-3 $1813.20 a month

Charge 1, UCMJ, Article 92, 4 specifications ~ downloading shit to his personal computer, and uploading unauthorized software to the network.

Charge 2, UCMJ, Article 134. 8 specifications ~ 8 exceeding authorized access, 4 gave shit to outsiders, 4 looked at shit he wasn't supposed to, and 8 bringing discredit to the Armed Forces.

E-3 $1813.20 a month
Boy what a difference 50 years makes. About $1700 bucks worth.

1940 - 1973 Military Draft in effect.
Now a volunteer Army with $ + other benefits.

IMO its now a better situation, except we still "draft"
Reserves and Guard units (and their families) into combat pay.

The same sort of increases have occurred in other professions
such as medical interns where on-duty
hours are reduced and $ and benefits are increased.

From the NY Times of 4 DEC 2010: Where is any of this secret?

From the NY Times of 4 Dec 2010:

You are right, none of this should be taken lightly. I have had a TS/SCI and in some limited cases compartmentalized access. It is not a game. All the more reason to go after Wikileaks. They are trying to hold themselves up a pseudo-news organization, which they are not, and they should not receive any such protections afforded such organizations.

No. It's not.

The reaction from the government is pretty harsh. They have been threatening everyone with a link to Wikileaks. Just off the top of my head, there's Amazon, Paypal, and some domain registration company. I wonder exactly what was said by the government to those companies to get them to pull the plug on Wikileaks so damn fast.

Also reports that the state department is telling at least Columbia University students and Boston University students that if they read any of the Wikileaks materials, they won't be hired in the government. And also Federal government workers being told they could be fired if they read the materials too.

I can understand the US Government trying to crack down on this, but the cat is out of the bag. Threatening people who simply read the secrets is ridiculous. You can't turn on the tv or pick up the paper without seeing a story on one of the released cables.

:rolleyes:

The soldier who copied and distributed the documents will certainly face a military court.
But once those documents were distributed, there seems to be a consensus developing that
Wikileaks and the news media acted responsibly in the publication of only selected documents,
and little actual damage was done... so far only (justifiable ?) embarrassment.

So, the question may become one of over-reaction.

Good Gossip, and No Harm Done to U.S.
By ALBERT R. HUNT | BLOOMBERG NEWS
Published: December 5, 2010

I agree. Same goes for people who work at government facilities. I can see them not allowing you to view it at work, but only until recently was it blocked. Once it is out there, it is just out there. That approach seems quite Orwellian. The horse is out of the barn.

But I still say hunt him down and treat him as a terrorist.

I would have to say that is pretty much BS. We know for a fact that he put lives of individuals in harms way with the first release. Just because the news organizations have vetted them and done a better job than he has does not make him less culpable.

@ Merc
I've not been into reading any of the publically released documents.
Maybe I should, but I've not yet heard such a specific report.
Right now I'm still going on what I've seen on a TV interview with Assange,
and the (Google News) media reports.

During the TV interview, Assange said Wikipedia staff reviewed the documents and
Wikipedia did not distribute any that were above the "Secret" level of security.
Then there is this from the link I gave above:

I really find that very difficult to believe. Cables from overseas would require special access, not just a Secret clearance.

Well the point is made but it is definitely an overstatement. Not just "anyone" can get one, but if you have a clear past and an explainable but documented record you should be able to get one with minimal problem. You would be surprised at what you need to go above that. For my TS/SCI Compartmentalized my investigation was nearly 18months long before they finished it. Not for any other reason but that is about how long it takes. It is pretty detailed and for a limited time period before you have a recheck.

Yes, I understand...Something a bit more than Sunday Girl's civilian experience:

Here you go.... Now what would be the purpose of such a release?

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...r-targets.html

I was just about to post that Merc. People can claim 1st Amendment, freedom of information, transparency, etc. all they want about Wikileaks, but this newest release shows their true colors. What is the purpose of releasing this list? What evil action by the government does this expose? What justice is being done here? Nothing. There is no use for this list other than by those who wish the US and its allies (since this list includes places overseas such as GB) harm.

Again, from Merc's link above:
I suppose it's how you view such things,
but to me this looks just like what governments and businesses routinely do...
make catalog listings of things.

For example, just using Google I could have made a list that included
the Straits of Hormuz, , mines in Africa,
vaccine facilities in France, and undersea cables .

Here is something about a weapons factory in Haifa (via Google);
however, I don't know if this link is part of the Wikileaks or if it has been up for a while.
I think the latter because at the bottom it reads:

I think he is digging his own grave, figurative speaking. He is pushing the envelope and the closer he gets to the edge the more evidence they will have to declare him and his organization a quasi-terrorist organization where more extreme measures can be used against him. He is aiding and abetting at the least.

And now there is this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/12/06...ion=cnn_latest

makes for good reading, guys

Wikileaks has to take responsibility for everything they post but how can someone tell the difference between a document with the sole purpose as a national security threat to the US and one that may have slipped through the cracks of a filter, if they even have one? There are 1.2 million documents on wikileaks.

That's true but it is still something you don't make public. For example, with the same amount of planning, maybe even less, Al-Qaeda could have drastically affected every American and killed tens of thousands if not millions. It's a bold claim but it's amazing how low security was for many high level targets before 9/11.

But outing a covert CIA agent to promote the massacre of 4500 American soldiers in Iraq is acceptable? It is rather amazing the double standard.

First these same people outted Valerie Plame. Then they so subvert security that any kid with only a high school education has access to all "secrets". Then they accuse Assange of treason when Assange is neither an American nor did he do anything to compromise American security. When do we discuss they who most subverted American security and innovation instead attack Assange.

Ironic. Same people who intentionally lied to blame Saddam for 11 September, had White House lawyers rewriting science papers, subvert the American space program, created a near destruction of the American economy (including welfare to the rich), did all but protect bin Laden, tried to get America into a hot war with China over a silly spy plane, all but surrendered in Afghanistan, undermined the Oslo Accords, and kidnapped people into secret prisons all over the world. But somehow Assange is as evil as Saddam for simply redacting and reporting what was made into public information.

Amazing the hate of Assange. And so little anger at the Army Private or the people who all but enable that Private to breach security.

Worst harm is that we and everyone else in the world now have to deal with so many people so scummy as to be 'insulted'. Who could not accept honest assessments. A little blunt honesty demonstrates to the world that Americans have been dealing with them honestly. Once we eliminate (or forget) the emotional tirade, eventually a new world order will either accept that honesty or entrench those who fear honesty.

Most of this is only hyped because it embarrasses the liars. And embarrasses the honest people for being honest. Embarrassment is another example of silly emotions - adults acting as children. Meanwhile, the most important fact is this. In the last decade, the Chinese have probably stolen all plans for America's nuclear arsenal because those who even had lawyers rewriting science also subverted American security.

Where security should have existed, why are we not calling for their public execution? Because that is too logical - not based in hate and hype promoted by those most responsible for this breach. And who are now attack Assange so that we will not blame the real anti-Americans.

Those same people may also be the reason why the Chinese have plans for all of our nuclear weapons. And so they use Limbaugh and Joseph McCarthy logic. Attack and accuse others. We have major security problems because those whose purpose is only a political agenda have so screwed so many American institutions and systems - including national security.

British police are looking for Mr Assange in relation to the allegations of rape in Sweden. Which means his arrival in the USA is imminent. We'll give him to Sweden immediately and although I agreed that Sweden is a European country mostly unaffected by America, extradition treaties are pretty damned powerful.

You got Gary McKinnon off us at any rate.

He has turned himself in to London police for the Swedish arrest warrant for the sex crime allegation:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe...ex.html?hpt=T1

Off to jail for the scumbag....

LONDON – A British judge sent Julian Assange to jail on Tuesday, denying bail to the WikiLeaks founder who vowed to fight efforts to extradite him to Sweden in a sex-crimes investigation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/wikileaks

Are they going after all the other media distributing the cable info now?

Wikileads is not a media source, newspaper, or news orgainzation. Although they would like you to think they are.

What are they, then?

If I had my way I call them a terrorist organization and I think they should be treated as such. They obtained stolen classified information and have released it to organizations and states which are known enemys of the United States, through wholescale public disclosure via news orgainzations. Traditionally news organizations are usually protected, Wikileaks is not one of those.

I am no fan of FEINSTEIN, but in this case I have to agree with everything she said.

Prosecute Assange Under the Espionage Act

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...pinion_LEADTop

There Wikileaks goes again, exposing the CIA's use of rendition and torture.

NY Times
Officials Pressed Germans on Kidnapping by C.I.A.
By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
Published: December 8, 2010

This particular fuckup was already known about, what is exposed is the US pressure on Germany not to do anything about it.