But we're the fastest-growing party in the U.S! 500% growth in 24 hours -- that's an annualized growth of 182,500%!!

And don't make me post more pictures of the mascot -- I'm sure people are getting sick of pictures of my dog -- but he's cuter than any donkey, most elephants, and probably whatever the LP's mascot is.

Everyone who wants equality is for it. Those who want a handout are against it.

It's the statue of Liberty.

I'd wager that most people don't want a handout. They want a fair chance...they want to play on a level field.

But we're still far away from that. Programs like Affirmative Action are in place for reasons beyond guilt. Admittedly, it's not perfect, and we'll find out more about its future sometime next year, when the Supreme Court looks at it.

The only way you get a fair chance is when everyone falls under the same rules. Why should people who didn't do some past injustice pay the people now who didn't suffer through it? We're equal or we're not. And the only way for everyone to be equal is to be treated equally. Not through government sanctioned racism like affirmative action.

fair warning
 

I am only twelve days away from being of age to hold Presidential Office.

Just thought you all should know.

I will entertain all nominations!

Brian

ok, ok I'll vote for you....just pilot the chopper

And that's the problem...not everyone is under the same rules. Sure, they're supposed to be...but you don't think that there are "unwritten rules" that are still well-practiced in this country?

I don't think you can please all the people all the time. It's impossible. Therefore you have to weigh the benefits against the costs (monetary, psychological, etc.).

How are we doing so far? Eh...it definitely needs some work. My own assessment is that we need to continue to hit the core reasons that cause inequality...working on people's attitudes and making sure all children are getting a good education. Easier said than done though.

I believe we are all equal, but not everyone is treated equally.

And how do you suppose we do this? Create a miracle drug that will take away people's biases? What do we do with those that won't treat people equally?

Maybe out in Southern California, or where you have been before, all people treat each other equally, and protections are unneeded (I doubt it...you live in one of the most racially polarized cities in the US). If so, that's great! But...

It's been my experience that it doesn't happen in any part of the US I've been to (23 states and DC, mostly east of the Mississippi). And I don't think it's happening in any place in the US, except maybe....MAYBE...San Francisco (and I've never been there).

You keep talking about treating people equally, yet I think you are overlooking a ton of factors that prevent this from happening, as if they are non-existant. If a Libertarian came in and tried to repeal all the protections today or in the near future, you would have a ton of pissed off people...one of the reasons why I think a lot of people don't "get" the Libertarian Party right now. Maybe down the line, a new enlightenment will come over the United States, and we will all truly be equal in the eyes of each other.

I'm optimistic, but I'm not holding my breath. And you've made my head hurt enough for one day.

We're all equal. Some of us are just more equal than others....

Orwell was a legend.

Syc - I'm sure you've heard teh old addage about argueing with idiots - apply.

Equally under the law. And no racial group is more a victim of racism than another in America and that includes white people. Should I be able to go to Harlem and force a black owned business to hire me because I'm white? No. Should anyone be able to get a spot in college with lower grades than everyone else just because I'm black? No. Should the most qualified company with the best bid be turned down for a government contract just because another company happens to be owned by a Hispanic person? No.

Some people just don't get it. Laws don't change people's attitudes. They never have and never will. There will always be stupid and ignorant racists regardless of which race they are. There are plenty of Hispanics, blacks, middle-easterners, Asians, pacific islanders, American Indians, etc. that hate white people or each other, and vice-versa. Laws don't change that. And they should be allowed to be stupid and act any way they want. If they own a company and don't want to hire someone based on their race boycotts of their products might change their mind, but laws won't.

You can't make laws against rude behavior, or someone's attitude. It puts the government in the dangerous position of being the "thought" police and that's totally wrong. Everyone in America thinks they're a victim and it's all the fault of white guys who may or may not be related to people in the past that committed injustice to someone who isn't alive.

Nobody is entitled to any special treatment based on race. Not even if their ancestors were the victims of injustice. Frankly, I'm sick to death of idiots with the, "Your grandfather did something bad to my grandfather so now you owe me something" attitude. Especially since my grandparents came to America after slavery and endured the same exact social stigma and racism as blacks and Chinese.

Affirmative actions perpetuate racism rather than eliminating it. They victimize one group at the expense of others. They are without a doubt wrong in every way. Perhaps they were needed in the 60's, rarely in the 70's, almost never in the 80's, unheard of in the 90's, and haven't been needed now for a very long time.

We're all the same or we're all different. You can't have it both ways. We must all fall under the same rules and same laws with no special treatment for any group and base everything on meritocracy at least with government jobs. If small private (say 500 employees or less) companies want to discriminate based on race, religion, age, etc. it's not the role of government to punish them but rather society at large. And they will be harmed far more by those who vote with their dollars than anything else.

Jaguar, you're not worthy of a reply by me, but I'm feeling generous so here you go. You're an insignificant mindless little dweeb who couldn't hope to keep up in a debate with me on your best day and my worst. You lack the mental capacity to comprehend even the simplest concepts. I've forgotten more about computers and networking than you'll ever know. You're a complete and utter moron who lacks any understanding of the constitution or even of the world around him. You are perpetually in a fantasy world with no grasp on reality. I pity you and your ilk because you are too stupid to even know how stupid you are. You are truly a worthless excuse for a human being let alone someone worthy of having a conversation with. You're a living, breathing joke.

Thomas Paine was talking about you when he said, "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

This quote fits you much better than Señor Jag.

My God...YOU really don't get it, do you Radar? I'll leave you to your security blanket of ignorance.

Cute Radar, cute, if lacking in originality or flair of any type. I'm only insulted because I’ve retorted to so much better stuff. For reference I don't claim to know much about the constitution, apart from the basics of the first few amendments, I don't live in America, a possibility I doubt your tiny mind could hope to entertain. Apart from that, I’m 17, just got a top Uni offer and a very healthy income, it’s all water off a ducks back.

Please, try again, and this time put some thought into it, use a thesaurus, maybe dig up some classics. But please, don't waste my time with such inarticulate and mediocre verbal blathering again.But enough filling this board with mindless drivel and flames, welcome to my ignore list, you'll fit in well.

"just got a top Uni offer" Congrats Man!

Thanks =) Just hoping i can defer for a year.

I can't believe you guys haven't put this idiot on the ignore list yet.

Great job though, jag. And Sycamore. And everyone else.

Aw shucks...it was nothing.

I've only used the ignore feature one time...and it was only for a few days. If people choose to use it, that's cool, and I can completely understand why.

As I see it, in order for someone to survive on the Cellar, they will eventually need to learn to be diplomatic...and responsible in what they post (depending on the nature of the post). Otherwise, they will:

--burn out quickly
--get bored and leave
--not be taken seriously or respected
--become a casualty through Cellar rule #3 (which in being here almost 2 years, I've seen UT execute it once--on Parmenion)

I try not to let "undesirables" bother me too much...and truth be told, it can be fun to watch people hang themselves with their own rope. :)

I haven't been here long enough to see how the cellar weeds out the bad apples. But I've decided to take radar off my ignore list. Though I can't stand the way he writes, I found myself wanting to look at his posts everytime I saw his name. Something about watching someone make a fool out himself and wanting to argue with them I suppose. even if the argument seems to be falling on completely deaf ears.

I'm telling ya, it's like a car wreck...you can't help but look. :)

I'm not sure what to search on but Hubris Boy was a one man cleaning service here for a while, really beautiful work.

Well between Cairo and Radar the politics forum has become the most entertaining forum here, pity it tends to obscure any real conversation. I read Cairo, they're usually pretty funny, Radar shits me though.

They usually just go away. People simply stop communicating with them, and they get bored. People here are pretty good about not feeding the trolls.

Sure you have...you see how people are dealing with Radar and Cairo.

Tob, yeah, but sometimes it can be fun to yank their chains a little. :)

Given that I'm neither a "bad apple", nor a "troll" I'm not being "dealt with". Also given the incredible lack of intelligence displayed by most of the people on this board, I have no fear of ever being dealt with.

I can't believe how dumb most of you are. There were a few good points made by very few of you but for the most part you've got a bunch of idiots like jaguar, sycamore, hermitt, etc.

Undertoad isn't an idiot, but he's got issues.

In fact the only other lucid person on this board thus far is slang. I can see I'll have to stick around a long time to educate you fools.

But for those too stupid for rational thought like those I've already listed, I'll just put you on the ignore list. I always put blatant racist, complete idiots, religious zealots, those without an original thought, and those with heads thicker than a brick on the iggy list because they're not worthy of a comment by me.

Alright!

First, I was called a "dumbazz" by Cairo, now an "idiot" by Radar.

Come on...somebody call me an "ignorant motherfucker," and I've got the trifecta! :)

Your kind of cutting your options down aren't you. You put those you listed down and your going to have hardly anyone to talk to. Not that it matters as all you do is respond to others posts by repeating what you said before.

Oh yeah and syc you're an ignorant motherfucker :) lol

:) See? I told you guys I'm not a dumbass. Oh, wait (slang looks up the definition of the word lucid)...............yep, lucid, thats me.

Slang, I was worried about you, I couldn't stand you when you first showed up, but now your all right. You figured out what it means to be reasonable. And at least you back up your points with a few sources, not just spew the same opinionated bull over and over again.

He shoots...HE SCORES! The hat trick for #75!!!

I'll ditto cam on slang. I was concerned about slang at first, but he learned to play nice with others, and is a fine addition to our motley crew.

Thanks guys. What I actually learned is not to throw something out without leading someone through the process that leads me to believe that idea. From my experience here, people can respect or at least understand a person's position without embracing it themselves, IF, it's presented well.

There are people here that are convinced that they are right , and will defend themselves to the end. That's fine, I'm not hoping to change their minds. My goal is to present the other side of the argument through my eyes and experiences and to learn about others as well.

The common practice among like minded people is to avoid using supporting info. After all, they all read (pick your choice of any book or publication ) and anyone who has read that knows they are correct on any given issue. If you are truly interested in diversity of thought you must realize that everyone has had a very different backgound. If you logically support an idea or philosophy, it should be pretty easy to make a case for it. That's what I try to do now, and encourage others to do also. There are so many things all of you say that sound to me like chalk screeching on a chalkboard. I couldnt possibly reply rationally without a staff, so I just don't reply.

The whole Cellar "thing" isnt about just debate either. There are some very creative and funny people in this membership. I've learned a lot and had some really good laughs.<br><br>

And....anytime you use the word "spew", you know I'm going to attach <a href="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/21b7c626/bc/spew.wav?bcTsV99AmQhAsQVg">this clip </a> to it.

True dat. Now that Cairo has resorted to name-calling in pretty much every post, I feel kinda dumb for sticking up for her.

And now it turns out Radar is even worse about it. Feel free to stick around as long as you want, man. Feel free to talk to the walls as well; you may get more of a response from them.

By the way, how was <B>the convention</B>?

ill keep that in mind. :)

~james

I agree with Cairo quite a bit. Her delivery isn't real friendly though. Maybe she'll lighten up, maybe not. I don't want her or Radar to stop posting though. I wish they would raise the bar, but they both have constructive things so say.

Do you feel as dumb about sticking up for her as you did me? :)

Or didnt you agree with anything I said?

It's alright Tob. You really couldn't have known.

But there IS going to be a price to pay...

Sycamore for VP. :)

One of the things I will work for is creating marijuana vending machines at every college campus in the United States.

I just want to 4th or 5th or 12th my approval of slang. :)

I like disagreement, whether it's on a philosophical basis or a more factual, evidence filled one. It's too bad that radar and cairo aren't so good at providing evidence. They should go to the slang school of cellar posting.

Syc, that would be the best campaign platform possible to invigorate the youth vote.

No more youth apathy, eh?

I agree, which is why it's so disappointing that both have resorted to kindergarten name-calling. "You're an idiot. Poopyhead!"

Um, I don't remember sticking up for you, did I? :)

I love having people here I disagree with, or just people who post thoughtful stuff in general, but when they can't communicate as adults is when I just tune 'em out. You must not have fit into that category :)

Oh, fine, alright. I'll have to ask Al though. If he pees on the carpet, you're out!

On a somewhat sadder note, Al is going in for his neutering tomorrow. Which is exactly why we need a ballsy platform like marijuana vending machines!

But can you imagine putting in your $20, making your selection, and then the baggy gets caught in the damn spirally device? We'll have to find some better vending-machine technology first.

Well shit, if we're going to go to the trouble of advancing vending maching technology, we could at least have the machine roll your joint for you. Just select the amount you want and the paper you like it in, and the machine does the rest. :)

Hell even ill admit slang is tollerable. Group hug!
:whofart:

Pardon me while I pick myself up off the ground from a dead faint.

Okay, I'll join in on the group hug, but I refuse to have anything to do with singing Kum Bah Yah, okay?

Ill swallow a live slug before we'll agree on much but he does back up his points and can debate unlike some other recent additions.

Fine! I'll lead it!

"Someone's crying Lord *does gestures* Kum bah yah..."

No! No! Anything but that!

I'm meeeeeelting! Aaaaaaaah!

Anarchy in the UK!

:rattat:

Blammity-blam-blam-blam-blam ...

hee hee.

Got 'im.

Finally, a reason for guns I can agree with - no more Kumbayah.

Finally, a liberal I can get along with - doesn't like Kumbayah.

But what's his stand on the "Noble Rabbit" song from Jay/Silent Bob?
<i>
Hey Mr Science Guy
Don't spray that aerosol in my eye
I don't really wanna die
I'm a noble rabbit
</i>