I agree with Cam...it's like two big cats snarling at each other. :)

I saw God at the corner deli the other day. We had a few minutes to chat and catch up as we were waiting on our hoagies. I hadn’t seen him lately so I was glad to see him again. He looks good as usual and is showing less age than Dick Clark .

We had the same little talk we normally do, I ask for the winning powerball numbers and a time machine. He asks that I stop being such a selfish asshole and to consider preparing less for the end of the world by hoarding food and military supplies. We both ask but neither of us receive what we want from the other.

He wanted me to pass on some messages. It seems that even God reads the cellar. Since he is a rather modest God and doesn’t care to register or post, I told him I would relay the messages.

<LI> The debate on religion is futile. </LI>
<LI> Radar, yer gonna burn dude. </LI>
<LI>Cairo, your posts are becoming less confrontational and that pleases the supreme one </LI>
<LI> Iraq and Saddam are toast come January. Get over it. </LI>
<LI> God votes Libertarian </LI>
<LI> Jesus carries an AK paratrooper model for it’s portability and stopping power</LI>
<LI> The Dems have been praying for miracles a lot lately. </LI>
<LI> The Bush admin is trying to compete with God via the Homeland Security Agency and this has not gone unnoticed. </LI>
<LI> God has recently granted Al Sharpton the ability to sound like a rational man on TV, but is very hesitant to grant his prayers for the White House.</LI>
<LI>Hillary is working out the details of a deal with the devil for the presidency in 04. He says he cant control that but wishes he could.</LI>

God regrets not being able to reply directly to many of the posts here in the cellar. He stopped posting in forums though after people rejected his screen name “God” and were mocking him. He’s not too pissed but just avoids the keyboard now. And lastly he sends good wishes to all .

God bless you, slang, thanks for lightening things up.

My God is better than Slang's god. ;)

Do you believe in god?

No.

BAM! Dead.

How about you? Do you believe in god?

Yes."

Do you believe in MY god?

No.

BAM! Dead!

My god has a bigger dick than your god. - George Carlin

My Goddess can beat up your God ...

HEY!!! Your karma ran over my dogma ...

Props to slang, syc and wolf, funny stuff guys =)

Stupidity can be hard on the eyes, so for the good of everyone else I’ve broken up Cairo’s drivel into multiple parts. It's also barely understandable, so breaking it help can help decipher what these jumbled inarticulate rambles are meant to mean.

Now that was the most logical thing I think Cairo has ever stated, mostly because he's merely quoting others. Sadly it only gets worse.

Can anyone, at first read, actually make any sense of this? At all? Dear Cairo, what are you on about now?

Now i hate to bore the rest of you but this petulant, mentally unarmed opponent of mine needs at least a rudimentary understanding of why there is an ozone hole where there is. Which, to be brief is because of certain stratospheric wind patterns which carry CFCs down to the area in which the hole is located.

Now the relevance of this is that the fact that we do/have done damage, and the fact that due to freak weather conditions, the damage was not in the usual places or the usual strength are not intertwined. The damage is not due, or have much relation to the weather, the weather is what carries to where the hole is, it is not responsible for the damage itself. Which in other words mean Cairo here as has, once again metaphorically shitted on the carpet, bad puppy!

:haha:
*sighs* You really are just plain dumb aren't you? It's like arguing with a small, rather whiney child. It's a scientific fact today, correct, tomorrow it might not be, but today it is. Can you grasp that one?

Jag, Cairo is a she.

oh well, i don't actually have enough respect for her, or her opinions to be bothered correcting it.

(God scratches his head and wonders how he screwed up to make the humans favor physical agression)

Ask God
 

Hi! How was your Christmas? I was wondering if you could explain why the only time I saw angels was that time in college when we were drinking on the roof... well you know the story.

(Speaks in booming but not painfully loud God voice)

Hello Griff. Very good thankyou. Of course, you know it’s basically just me and Jesus here on his birthday. I give the majority of angels their wings a few days before Christmas , and the others are busy trying to earn theirs. That way we get a little quality time together. Both of our schedules are quite busy during the year, this way he can open his presents undisturbed.

Yes, I do give him presents. He made out well this year, the economy is crappy and there were thousands of real bargains. It’s tough to find the perfect gift for your only son after giving gifts for thousands of years. I try not to overdo it though because he normally breaks the cool toys by new years. Many times just the box is still intact in January. There’s nothing more entertaining than seeing the savior of humanity crawl through a big box or stick his tongue out at me through a cutout in the side. Kids nowadays. What can you do?


That’s a good question. Let me try to explain some of my policies.

As you can imagine, I have a lot to do, so I have to delegate a lot of work. I have a printed “God policy” handbook for new angels and the majority read and follow them. Sometimes we get some angels that like to "show boat" the fact that they received their wings by allowing people to see them. This is clearly prohibited in the handbook, but it happens. The fact that you were drinking probably boosted the angel’s confidence that you wouldn’t take pictures and such. That’s a felony up here and I get bitchy when it happens. Please accept my most sincere apology.

Don’t think the lack of my personal attention in protecting you that day, and many others, means you are not very valuable to me. You are very important to me and people in the distant future. Your kids, and their kids will play a direct role in helping humanity in ways you cannot comprehend at this time. I’ll explain when you come up. It’s a bit too involved for this forum.

My last thought or request is that you try to be a little easier on George. You wouldn’t believe the strings I had to pull to get him in there, and I’m God! Do you think Gore would have done any better? I think not.<br>

Actually, they both say the same thing: Global warming isn't a cut and dry issue, but what we are seeing is an increase in temperature beyond anything we can hypothesize from geological, etc. studies. And since we know that there is a direct relationship between some of our commonly used chemicals and depletion of ozone, and the relationship between a thinner ozone and global warming, only an idiot would think there isn't a relationship between the two.
Ok, once I followed your link, I saw the concern. I thought you were trying to claim that a school system is supposed to somehow make money, which would be just ridiculous. $450 M is kind of a drop in the budget compared to the national school budget, but it still isn't a number that can get thrown away easily.

I find it ironic that Cairo's calling Radar Tyrannical for quoting anti-Tyrannical thinkers.

Why do Republicans see any dissent as Communist? Are they that stuck in the past? I mean, I realize that much of Republican rhetoric involves a return to what was (or what they believe was) but name calling such as this just seems ridiculous, especially given Radar's expressed libertarianism.

And what do you mean by the "90+% of American citizens"? If you think 90% of America is religious, then you're wrong. This past census showed the highest number of non-religious people - about 15%. Splitting hairs maybe, and you might not even be referring to the same thing as you seem to be.

Jaguar -
Your delusions of grandeur have run amok... or is it run dumbf*k! Your flatulence keeps insisting that man has caused the damage, when even the "real" scientists say the evidence is inconclusive.
The evidence NASA provided says, contrary to you, that for a full year there was repair to the ozone and NO DAMAGE, so if man causes the damage, I suppose the whole world decided to conserve energy, stop buying SUV's, stop our polluting factories, and the world is now buying enviro-safe products...
but just for one year, is THAT your logic??? What organizational skills President Bush has to pull this off!!! Man's usage of energy hasn't changed, the natural weather cycle has!

Since I only know the sum-up of the big picture, time to let the expert get technical on yo azzzz....

I'm Cairo's husband an HVAC tech that is universally certified by the EPA. 7 years experience.

I'm only going to tell your pinko ass this once so listen up.

Chloroflourocarbons are not the end of all ozone on earth by a long shot. The CFC O3 breakdown schematic that you are familiar with is incomplete.

Sunlight creates O3 by photoreaction with UV and O2. While CFC does crack O3 into O2 with a free oxygen ion that will strip another O3 of it's extra oxygen atom, and so on and so on. But that chain does not go on ad finitum. Chlorine is broken down in a matter of hours(if you ever owned an inground pool the chlorine maintenance during the summer should tell you how fast the sun will destroy unprotected chlorine-yes pools can use cyanuric acid to sun shield the chlorine) in direct sunlight, flourine fares no better. The sunlight reassembles the scattered oxygen compounds back into O3 in a very short order.

But that is all academic. My posit to my EPA instructor was how CFC and to a lesser degree HCFC were able to get to the upper atmosphere when it is a known fact that those compounds are heavier than air, and considerably heavier than ground level ozone(which purportedly can't reach the upper atmosphere in any significant quantities-can you differentiate chemically between synthetically generated ozone and stratosphereic? No, O3 is O3.
Needless to say he had no answer, because I had stayed awake during organic chemistry class and was not going to be snowjobbed with superflous verbage that covered up the fact the man couldn't diagram molecules much less molecular equations.

As for Australians and South Africans being seemingly more affected by the sun; it's genetic.
Both bloodlines are derived from predominately nordic and celtic stock. Both tribes are known to be susceptable to strong sunlight because the celts and the nords adapted over thousands of years to a latitude with indirect sunlight for the most part.
If it was truly an O3 related effect, even the native darkies would be affected. Not to mention that even a 1% decrease in UV shielding would start to sterilize the very environment around you. Bacteriums would start to die out, but viruses would start getting real hairy before they petered out.

Grapes haven't grown in england for over a thousand years, the fact that they once did tells you that the weather is always a changin'. Or are you going to blame the vikings for their environmental plight?

As for the ozone hole itself; we had never had the type of equipment that detected it available before. It is very unscientific to assume just because we were finally able see it meant it had just appeared. This is akin to believing that whales didn't communicate with one another until we invented the hydrophone.
There is every reason to believe that the ozone holes are largely natural, and if anything are important to the ecosystem of the poles-their absence seems to enable the already thin air to get even colder.
It's worth noting that the main reason reason the polar regions are so devoid of any vegetation is because of the lack of direct sunlight(lack of direct sunlight also limits the amount of radiated solar heat absorbed).

Direct sunlight is needed to cause oxygen molecules to photoreact into ozone.

So try getting a plain old chemistry book from about 1965-1969, that should insulate you from the political propaganda that developed around the environment in the early 1970's.
I would like to point out that the first earth day was held with the belief that we were going into a new ice age. It was held during the 1970's that aerosols were causing the earth to cool down too fast(yeah it was a cold decade, but nothing out of the historical norm). So one might be led to belive(if one believed everything that they were told) that the natural quick fix to global warming would be to mandate the reintroduction of aerosols into the consumer market.

But of course, aerosols weren't responsible for the cold streak of the 1970's anymore than CFC's were for the heat waves of the 1990's.

It's called weather, it's always changing.

I wouldn't call you stupid, just brainwashed and ignorant...an example of what the public school system has become.

Finally, No, your scientific theory is not a scientific fact today...it is still being studied as theory today. Fact is when it is final knowledge.

Hermit22 -
No, they don't say the same thing at all, Jaguar is under the impression that the whole world went on an "enviro-fasting" for only 1 year to reverse damage to justify NASA's proof of depletion.

Radar was quoting anti-christian thinkers specifically for un-christian reasons. And he is Tyrannical for his UNConstitutional prohibition of Religion stance.

I didn't call ~him~ a commie, per se...I said Communists are Godless(Hitler was Atheist), and Radar is touting for a Godless America. The conclusion you draw from this is up to you.

Saying 1 out of every 10 Americans are "non-religious" is a very generous percentage, in my opinion. Regardless, majority is majority.

Cairo: Once again, your circular logic gives away your total lack of intellectual ability and your claims that I’m “tyrannical” hold no water given the fact that by fighting the mixing of church and state I’m fighting tyranny itself.

You have no points for me to argue against. You make ludicrous claims that people’s right to exercise freedom of religion is infringed by not being allowed to post their religious doctrine in federally funded buildings. Posting the 10 commandments in a public place isn’t an exercise of religious freedom. It’s a violation of the 1st amendment because it amounts to respecting an establishment of religion (or even a few). Making laws that protect us from religious zealots violating the 1st amendment is not a law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Praying is an exercise of religion, attempting to make a false connection of your religion to our government by posting your religious doctrine in publicly funded buildings is not an exercise of religious freedom.

Absolutely true, and absolutely irrelevant. As noted earlier, separationists take this language from Thomas Jefferson's 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists in which he argued that the Constitution created a "wall of separation between church and state." But, as noted above, separationists have never taken the phrase as anything more than a handy (if historically significant) summary of the intent of the religion clauses of the First Amendment.

No magic attaches to a particular verbalization of an underlying concept. The concept at issue here is more accurately expressed in Madison's phrase 'separation between Religion and Government,' or in the popular maxim that 'religion is a private matter.

The phrase "Bill of Rights" has become a convenient term to designate the freedoms guaranteed in the first ten amendments; yet it would be the height of captiousness to argue that the phrase does not appear in the Constitution. Similarly, the right to a fair trial is generally accepted to be a constitutional principle; yet the term "fair trial" is not found in the Constitution. To bring the point even closer to home, who would deny that "religious liberty" is a constitutional principle? Yet that phrase too is not in the Constitution. The universal acceptance which all these terms, including "separation of church and state," have received in America would seem to confirm rather than disparage their reality as basic American democratic principles

It’s a TOTAL AND COMPLETE separation of church and state. They wanted government out of religion and religion out of government.

That’s a complete and utter lie. Neither the constitution, nor the declaration of independence recognizes religion or the Judeo-Christian concept of god. The word “Creator” refers to a vague higher power such as nature. The founding fathers believed in NATURAL RIGHTS, not “god given” rights. I dare you to make a comparison between the declaration of independence and the Magna Carta or any other previous declaration of rights.


Wrong again. The constitution doesn’t grant any rights. It protects the rights we’re born with. Preventing people from posting their religious doctrine in government places when that government is explicitly prohibited from putting any religion or religions above others isn’t infringing on the “free exercise” of any religions and it’s ridiculous to claim otherwise.


Again you make an outrageous and false comparison. It’s not unconstitutional, tyrannical, or oppressive to allow people to practice their religions freely but prevent them from using oppressive, unconstitutional, or tyrannical means to force their religion down the throats of others. And when your lame attempts to throw logic to the wind fail and people see through your transparent bullshit you resort to calling people names like “Mr. Taliban”.

No, the difference between us is that I present intelligent, thoughtful, cogent arguments that make perfect sense and you make ludicrous and false claims backed by circular logic and hypocritical accusations.

My America allows anyone to pray anywhere they want, but not to force other Americans to pay for instructor lead prayers, unconstitutional mixing of church and state through the posting of religious doctrine, naming deities in oaths, on currency, etc. My America doesn’t prohibit or restrict any beliefs. Your America is unconstitutional, tyrannical, oppressive, and wrong! My America is all about freedom for EVERYONE, personal responsibility, limited government, etc. while yours is about an unconstitutional, imperialistic, theocracy forcing one or several religions into the lives of other Americans (or foreigners) who don’t subscribe to those beliefs.

We’re not a multi-religion nation, or any religion. The United States government has no place in religion and NO RELIGIONS have any place in our government.

The government can do lots of interfering without making laws. There is no constitutional amendment giving the government the legal authority to prohibit drugs yet they do. YOU support UNCONSTITUTIONALLY ramming some religions down the throats of 100% of Americans while I want to give people choice. The choice to practice any religion they choose, or no religion at all without the government sanctioning or recognizing any particular religion(s) above any others by UNCONSTITUTIONALLY allowing any religious doctrine to be posted in the buildings owned by everyone including atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, and hundreds of other Non-Christian and Non-Jewish religions and sects.

The “wall of separation of church and state” mentioned by Jefferson in the letter to the Danbury Baptists or in his other writings is not one-directional and nothing any of the founding fathers have ever written suggests otherwise.

And for the record the Supreme Court building was finished in 1935 and the 10 commandments were posted at THAT time. NOT by the founding fathers. The 10 commandments were added by ignorant religious zealots long after the founding fathers were dead and buried. The same is true of “God” on our currency, in our oaths, and in anywhere else in our government. They believed that the total and complete separation of all religions and government were good for government and good for religions.

Very true. I’m an avid tennis fan. Hopefully you’ll be able to help Cairo since he’s been getting his ass kicked since before this thread even started.

I did no such thing. I was quoting non-Christian (not anti-Christian) creators of this nation for constitutionally accurate reasons. I’m not tyrannical but you are. You support using the force of government to push one set of religious doctrine down the throats of others despite this not being an exercise of religion but just an exercise of power over other citizens.

I’m the least communist man on the face of the earth. Nice attempt at a red herring though. Way to try to draw attention from your complete lack of substance in this debate. The government of the united states ACTUALLY IS godless. It always has been and hopefully always will be. The people of America on the other hand worship as many deities as they choose. They may not choose, however, to make others view or recognize their religious doctrine or to add any credibility to that doctrine by UNCONSTITUTIONALLY AND TYRANNICALLY posting it in federal buildings, courts, or other establishments of our godless government.

Wow! Do you ever tire of being consistently wrong? You must not because you do it more consistently than anyone else I have seen.

First off if you add up all the atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, etc. you’d have much more than 15%. And if you add in all non-practicing religious people, you’d have even more non-religious people. Next if you add up all the religions that aren’t Christian or Jewish in America you would have less than 50% of the population. But even if each and every person except for one….me for instance wanted to post the 10 commandments in courthouses it still couldn’t be done because it goes directly against the constitution and making a law to post them goes against it too. Our INALIENABLE rights aren’t up for debate. They can’t be voted on, taken away, or even willingly given away. They aren’t given to us by government, the constitution, or even god unless you consider nature to be god. So a majority of religious people is irrelevant. Just like your entire argument.

You have been schooled. Class is dismissed, so run along child.

(God strokes his beard and thinks to himself)

Me-dammit, maybe it's time for another flood. Or perhaps I'll create some disease for the coffee bean and just let humanity collapse into chaos and destroy itself. Things just arent they way they were, thats for sure. No one believes in me any more, no one fears me or loves me. I just get half assed requests for bullshit nowadays. "I need money, I want power, make my penis larger"...christ, I get sick of it. Ahhwell, maybe the next time I'll get it right.

God's list of things to do differently next go-round:

<LI> Make regular dramatic personal appearances in a somewhat human form. It’s kinda tough to deny I exist if I throw some lightening around once in a while. </LI>
<LI> Fix the dogs’ lips. The Bulldog and the Boxer are living examples of my personal failure, and embarrass me. How is a God supposed to receive the respect he deserves with mistakes like this walking all over the earth</LI>
<LI> Discontinue the marijuana plant experiment. It creates too much trouble. </LI>
<LI> Make regular assassinations of “un godly” leaders. Humans aren’t equipped to deal with the responsibility of policing the world. At the same time, I like to watch TV just as much as any other god, and cant be bothered with the day to day details of running their government. I need to spank ass on occasion and delegate more. </LI>
<LI> I need to develop an effective strategy for preventing people from arguing and fighting over me, what I say, and what I have done. Maybe if I held a weekly press conference or a talk radio program I could eliminate some of this nonsense. I thought the bible was good enough. Back in the day it was cutting edge, text on paper pages bound to contain them. It seems to have lost it's appeal though.
<LI> Redesign the human body to be born with clothes that are are living, but machine washable. </LI>
<LI> Make all people the same color. I fucked that one up last time. </LI>
<LI> Build in a gene that grows into cancer when that person has thoughts of creating any form of tax system. </LI>
<LI> Create an appendage specifically for self defense. Maybe some type of horn or tusk that can extend into a defensive position on demand. </LI>


This would make these goof balls look much differently than I do and I would have to rewrite the “God made man in his own image” passage. It would be easier than leaving them the same though.

Just for the record, I never asked that you make my penis larger.


I have other prayers that need to be answered right now.

It's delusions of grandeur and stupidity that make people think they have no effect on the environment. It's rationale that makes people realize that humanity is part of a whole, not some clean room specimen.
Again, we don't know enough. But we do know that clorine and hydrogen levels have gone down. We do know that people in most of the first world are making deliberate efforts to be more environmentally friendly, and have been for several years. The anti-environmental Bush had nothing to do with it, and, in fact, took negative steps (see Kyoto, business regulations, etc.)
Cairo, you earlier claimed that in the modern era, people can't take personal responsibility for their actions. This line of thought falls victim to the same mentality you deride so readily.

I thought you were an Arab-hating reformed leftist with suicidal tendencies who taught history?

I'm not an HVAC tech (which obviously gives great environmental credentials) - but at least I've heard of wind and don't think my pool mimics the upper atmosphere.
What I do know is that there are 2 areas of ozone - upper atmosphere and regular atmosphere ozone. The holes are in both. Upper atmosphere is hit hardest by CFCs, lower by radical hydrogen atoms.

And native Chileans? Are they from nordic/celtic stock? No, the ozone hole was very real when it extended into Southern Chile and started burning the residents of Punta Arenas.

No it's not, because you didn't say that they were suddenly communicating about us, or because we were holding them captive for study.
It's a stupid argument. Come up with another one.
In addition, to assume that a decades-long trend of accelerated expansion in a hole in the atmosphere has nothing to do with humanity's increased industrialization is like claiming the skies over Los Angeles are smoggy because of the weather.

Right, because the last 35 years of chemistry is all wrong. Someone abhors change.

Eh, I'm tired, this endless bickering is annoying. Both sides need to be willing to explore the claims of the other, but, unfortunately for you, the scientists that claim there is no man-made global warming have been proven wrong, their methods questioned, and the oversights in their analysis publicized. It doesn't help that the most prominent of these (I can't remember his name right now) is associated with the Heritage Foundation and not some non-partisan group.

Anyway, go back to teaching vermin-filled history to HVACs who carry around a bullet to take their own life if the need arose.

I didn't say you did. I said you labeled any dissent as Communist, which would refer to his comments, not him.

And Godlessness means Atheism. Just because Communists were Atheists doesn't mean all Atheists are Communists. And you're historically stupid if you think Hitler was Communist. He hated the Reds. Again, just because x and y are both in the set z, that doesn't mean x = y.

It might be a good idea to re-examine your ideas of right and wrong. This way of thinking indicates that you may have a problem seeing grays and not just black and white.

*sighs*
I think hermit did a reasonably good job answering all of that crap. He also did a good job of pointing out some of your deeper flaws and endless hypocrisy. I'd like you to point out some solid scientific evidence that all the shit we've been pumping into the atmosphere has no effect, verses the mountains of detailed scientific analysis that tells quite a different story

As for you trash about races, tehehehe... You completely missed my point, the UV readings here sit almost steady in the 'extreme' to 'high extreme' range, know why? Because there a fucking great hole in the only thing that protects us from instant suntan over my head. Now while your highly stated oversized aircon installing credentials may have further clouded your already foggy vision of reality, hermit did a pretty solid job of pointing out the obvious weakness in your rather silly argument.

Since, unlike you, I don't think my husbands glorified aircon installation credentials are the best authority on environmental science, I did a bit of poking round the web, and out came this:

Well, well. The research was done my NASA, the same people you've been trying to tell me, incorrectly, believe that the minor decrease in the size of the ozone hole was evidence that the last 25 years of science was rubbish. As I previously pointed out the shrink was due to changes in stratospheric wind patterns, which were extremely unusual and as stated above, it is indeed wind that moves these up, and to where the hole is.

Do us all a favour and go back to teaching your kids that being a liberal makes baby jesus cry or whatever you do for kicks.

Radar -
Of course you don't want to address and answer my points...you have no answers and can't back up your fabricated puke!
What part of "Congress shall make no law..." do you not understand?
You say,"The Government can do lots of interfering without making laws."
This supposed "interfering" you refer to is called THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE or Democracy. Our currency,oaths, and anywhere else were voted on by We the People, it's not law, it's will!
As for drugs, well, we could take a vote on it, but drug use is not a constitutional right, so there are laws made against it. If a vote on religious historical donations to a public building were offered a 90+% Majority would allow it, but constitutioal rights need no vote to be allowed.
First you need to learn what Democracy and will of the people means, because America is for the people, by the people. Then you need to read the Federalist Papers.

Tyrannical refers to individuals who force a minority, unpopular, and oppressive ideal/act upon the majority against their will. On this issue I am part of the majority you wish to oppress with secular humanist religion! As in, I am with the masses, you are with the asses! Get it?!!!

You say,"They wanted Government out of Religion and Religion out of Government."
In so far as "make no law". The only laws that have been unconstitutionally made were from the bench by our courts! Decisions that legally prohibit the people, and establish the Religion of Secular Humanists into the Government...excluding all religions and allowing a single ruling religion is what the 1st Amendment was meant to prevent!

The Bill of Rights was amended and ratified into the Constitution, "separation of church and state" was in a private letter from Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptists assuring them that Congregationalists would not become the national religion. Strictly a personal letter, not made in an official capacity as it is misinterpreted today.

http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.jeffers.2.html

The reality, as you admit, is that the term and interpretation of"separation of church and state" is NOT a Constitutionality issue for our courts to decide and make law on...to do so is interpreting the Constitution, not law.

Creator is ONE who creates. As in Being. Pay close attention to Thomas Jefferson's definition of Creator: 'Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His Wrath?...'
And more quotes from Founding Fathers and others that PROVE the historical God-fearing principles of America...whatever America has become today, she was born Judeo-Christian!

http://www.shalom.jerusalem.com/heri...eritage15.html

So in conclusion, your pathetic attempt to censor Religion is UNConstitutional and baseless, like the DemocRATS telling us they pledge to raise taxes to balance the budget and We the People will like it!... Uh, No we won't and you just lost the vote!
You said, the Constitution is not to be interpreted, and I agree. Therefore, if our Founding Fathers had meant "practice", they would have written "practice". If they had meant "praying privately" they would have written that. No, they wrote FREE EXERCISE, which means any form of action, no boundries.
When I said you were shoving a Godless America down the throats of 90+% of Americans...that was rational critical thinking because you and our courts have decided to make law prohibiting the free exercise of religions against the will of the people.
When YOU say I am shoving God down the throats of 100% of Americans...not only is that irrational and hysterical, it's a flat out LIE! Mostly because of MY 1st Amendment Right to free exercise thereof.
Pornography is shoved down the throats of others, taxes are forced down the thoats of others, hate-speech is forced down the throats of others, abortion is forced down the throats of others, some think guns are forced down their throats, and I feel mainstream liberal-puke media is forced down my throat!...yet they are protected, YOU probably protect and support these Rights.
See your hypocracy?!?!!

The only point you have is on the top of your head.
I understand it fully. What part of “respecting an establishment of religion” do you not understand? I’m not asking the government to create laws preventing the free exercise of religion; not even close. I’m asking government to prevent others from violating the 1st amendment. Laws against the violation of the 1st amendment ARE NOT laws that prevent the free exercise of religion. <BZZZZZT> Try again.

America isn’t a democracy Einstein. It’s a democratic republic and the “will of the people” doesn’t matter with regard to our INALIENABLE rights. They can NEVER be voted on by the people.

<BZZZZZZT> Wrong Again! Pull your head out of your ass and come up for air before you get even more brain damaged. The people didn’t vote to put the word “god” on these things and even if they wanted to it would be a violation of the 1st amendment so nothing less than a constitutional amendment would allow for such violations of the intentions of our founding fathers to keep all religion out of our government and all government out of religion.

<BZZZZZZT> Strike Three! You’re out! Drug use ACTUALLY IS a constitutional right. The 9th amendment is as follows:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Which means the rights of the people are NOT limited to what is listed in the constitution.

The 10th amendment says:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

This means anything NOT listed in the constitution is a right of the people and the federal government has no authority to make decisions regarding these things or to prohibit them. The federal government may ONLY do those things specifically listed in the constitution and NOTHING ELSE!!!

So since using drugs is NOT listed in the constitution it is a right of the people and can’t be governed by the fed. And since the 14th amendment says the states can’t do anything the fed isn’t allowed to do, the states can’t prohibit it either. And since I’ve PROVEN that using drugs is an inalienable right it can’t be voted on or given away.

The public can’t vote on anything they want because government isn’t all powerful. The rights of individuals supercedes the powers of government.

Once again you’re talking out of your ass. You have no way of knowing how people would vote. But they can’t vote for it because it’s unconstitutional to allow them to vote on it. Although most people including Christians would be against posting the 10 commandments in courthouses. Even Jesus of Nazareth himself taught that prayer shouldn’t be done in public and that church and state should remain separate. True Christians follow his teachings and wouldn’t allow the 10 commandments to be posted unconstitutionally as you would have them do.

You need to step back and realize that America isn’t a democracy and never has been. We’re a democratic republic and the powers of government are very limited. And you need to realize that the government doesn’t represent the wishes of the American people. Government is not the people. If it were, when the Nazis killed the German Jews they would have been considered to have committed suicide since the government is the people and the people killed the people. I am more familiar with the Federalist papers, the constitution, the declaration of independence, American history, the writings of our founding fathers, the authors the founding fathers read, the powers of government, and constitutional law than you will ever be. You clearly know nothing what-so-ever about the U.S. Constitution, the type of government we have, the limits on our government’s authority, etc. I suggest you read a book for a change.

Tyranny has nothing to do with majority or minority, but it does have to do with force. The majority of Germany was with the Nazi party. So by your logic the things they did to the Jewish people weren’t tyrannical. And if you want a perfect example of a tyrannical force pushing their oppressive ideals onto people just look at those who want to UNCONSTITUTIONALLY force their religious doctrine down the throats of their fellow citizens through posting 10 commandments, instructor lead prayers, god in oaths, on currency, etc. That’s as tyrannical as using government to tell people what religion they should or shouldn’t believe. In fact that’s exactly what it is.

Once again, you are with the masses of asses who want to mix church and state despite it being unconstitutional.

Show me the phrase “bill of rights” in the constitution. It’s not there. Neither are the phrases “fair trial”, “religious liberty”, or “separation of church and state” but they’re all equally associated with the constitution and all principles upon which it was made.

The “creator” of America was a group of NON-Christian/Non-Jewish men. So America is most definitely NOT Judeo-Christian.
In conclusion, you have added nothing since my last post where I schooled you and proved everything I said. You have nothing of value to add to this conversation but your baseless claims, circular logic, and lame insults. Your entire argument consists of putting your fingers in your ears and saying “la la la, I can’t hear you!!” Your failed attempts to provide even one thing to support your claims has only made you look more stupid, which is a pretty difficult task.

My religion requires me to make human sacrifices of idiots who want to violate my constitutional amendments. Since no law can be made to prevent this I guess you’re dead meat.

Free exercise = freedom to worship. NOT freedom to violate the constitution, freedom to do anything in the name of religion, or freedom to unconstitutionally post your particular religious doctrine in government buildings as a violation of the 1st amendment.

You are a pathetic loser and a pathological liar. You lack the intellectual ability to carry on a logical debate. You’re a worthless, ignorant, loudmouthed, idiot without a single thing to support your unconstitutional, draconian, and tyrannical wishes to mix church and state. Even the Christian belief system itself is against mixing the two, or praying in public.

You so-called ideas about the constitution are laughable and so are you. I don’t know whether to laugh at you for being such a clown or to weep for you because you’re so pathetic and sad. In either case I hope that you’ll grow up and get educated.

Your not worthy of further responses from me. I will reserve my effort for those intelligent enough to comprehend facts, those that don't constantly lie, and those who know when they've been beaten. You lose on all counts.

Oh, please don't stop. Not yet. Watching you two retards hurl bullshit at each other has been tremendously amusing for the rest of us.

No. Really. You can't buy this kind of entertainment. Watching you and Cairo arguing about religion and government has been like watching an autistic child trying to explain quantum physics to a goat.

Oh. And remember the part in your last post- where you called Cairo a "a worthless, ignorant, loudmouthed, idiot"? That was beautiful, man. That brought a tear to my eye, it was so funny. Thank you.

File this latest HB gem here.

(slang opens his back window, takes a deep breath and yells at his capacity)

<H3>This debate is driving me crazy(er) and I can't take it any more!!</H3>

(birds fly quickly out of trees, cats and dogs run in fear and a hibernating bear rolls over in discomfort)

props again to HB for my morning chuckle.

Even autisic children are brighter than you. I don't expect Cairo to comprehend quantum physics, but even a goat can learn something as simple as knowing it's time to eat when they hear a bell.

Cairo and Radar should take this act on the road.

I just cleaned up an assload of ants that had invaded my kitchen, and I sat down at my computer to work in a really bad mood. This thread totally changed that. I'm still laughing.

Happy to cheer you up Hermit

Radar -
You couldn't school a fish out of a paper bag, you ignorant mook, so don't break your arm, man.
Federal and State Congress represents the will of the people, MORON, they didn't get there by answering an add in the paper! Shit-for-brains!
Congress(representing the will of the people) voted to put "In God We Trust" on currency, it's not a law and could change if the people will it to change...but we won't! America is part Democracy, what do you think State propositions are at election time...what do you think elections and people voting is called, Dumbazz!!!! Who mandates the State's standards for Marriage? IDIOT!

Drug use is NOT a Constitutional Right until it is Amended as such...you understand how that works right? Abortion was not a Right and WAS illegal until it was Amended...you are such a stupid piece of crap! Drugs are a State issue, but the Fed. Govt. gets into it through Highway funding. You should know this if you are informed.

Tyranny has to do with no choice. You say the Majority of Germany was forced to be with the Nazi party...I say the Majority had no choice. Same thing really, Hitler got rid of the opposition and the election was a choice of Demo-Socialists, Nationalists, or Communists, all of whom had the same "Government controls all" ideals. It was a veiled version of Saddam's "election".
If you have to sink to dishonest debate by putting words in my mouth to argue things I never said, you might as well just argue with yourself. You are arguing about using the Government to establish religion, when YOU are the pompus turd using the courts to establish Secular Humanist Religion! What a hypocrit, make up your mind!

The phrases AREN'T in there, asswipe, that's MY point! The revisionist interpretations of those phrases are NOT Constitutional, so why are the courts making law from the bench based on them????

Did you read the links? No, because you are a pinko commie revisionist who wants to turn America into something it's NOT! You can't find any reference in the Constitution, Declaration, or Federalist Papers to support your views. The private letter from Jefferson you did offer supports MY view that a National Religion ruling over the people is what they feared, not embracing and showing the choice of multi-religions in America! Everything else you offered was opinion based on a buttload of revisionary interpretation that makes it up as they go along!
America's historical past supports my views, God was not prohibited in America's birth, and He won't be prohibited in her future...so move to China,you would fit right in pink boy!
You are a sorry excuse for a human being, and a complete waste of my time and breath. Save your puke for someone who IS gullible enough to buy it... I don't buy processed shit that has been infested by maggots!

(God walks over to Radar and Cairo scrapping....grabs both by the shirt collar)

Cairo....you go to that corner (spanks her butt to the direction of the corner)...Radar....you go to the other corner (spanks his butt to the direction of the other corner)

Both of you need a "time out" for being mean to the other. As entertaining as all this ISN'T, you two are just too much. Radar, put Cairo on ignore. Cairo, put Radar on ignore.

Have a nice day.

God

(slang chuckles to himself)


I'd put God on ignore, he's an ass. I never listen to him anyway.

No, they don’t represent the will of the people. They are elected to represent the will of the people but often do the opposite of what they say they will do. What color is the sky on your planet? Here on earth it’s blue and politicians don’t keep their promises to the public.

The “will of the people” means the will of the majority of Americans. Not the will of a vocal minority like the religious right. And that’s exactly who put the word “god” on our currency and prohibited alcohol. A bunch of religious zealots known as the temperance movement.

[/quote]America is part Democracy, what do you think State propositions are at election time...what do you think elections and people voting is called, Dumbazz!!!! [/quote]

It’s called a democratic republic. Democracy is there, but it’s compartmentalized to prevent the abuse of power from vocal but tyrannical groups like those who would unconstitutionally post the 10 commandments in court houses.

Neither the state, nor federal government has any authority to mandate marriages in any way. Any laws that claim they do are unconstitutional.


There’s no amendment allowing you to eat, yet you do. You do understand that people don’t get their rights from the government don’t you? Of course you don’t. You do understand that we don’t get our rights from the constitution don’t you? Of course you don’t. You do understand that everything NOT listed in the constitution is a right of the people don’t you? Of course you don’t.

Abortion has been a right since before America was created. It’s a natural right and the government has no authority to make any rulings on it one way or the other.

I know how the fed CLAIMS to have authority but they don’t. They claim that growing your own cannabis in your backyard and consuming it constitutes “interstate” traffic. This of course is not the case.

Yes, like no choice in the matter of whether you are forced to see religious doctrine posted in courthouses that are part of a government restricted from doing such in the constitution because it amounts to respecting an establishment of religion.

No I didn’t say they were forced to be part of the Nazi party or to kill jews. They CHOSE to follow these orders.

I haven’t revised anything. The constitution and the declaration of independence are models of non-religious documents. They were made specifically to eliminate any religion from government and vice versa. I’ve backed up what I’ve said using the constitution itself.

There you go again calling me a pinko and a commie despite the fact that I’m the least communist man on earth. How typical. America is and forever shall be a Non-Judeo-Christian nation. The government of America wasn’t based on any part of any religion.

Every one of those supports my views because my views are the same as those of our founding fathers. Every single thing written by Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Paine, Washington, Adams, and all of the other founders backs up what I’ve said. And why would I look at your lame sites when you obviously haven’t even read the constitution?

You are so pathetic it’s ridiculous. You’re so emotional and insulting because you know I’m right. You know that I’ve proven every single thing I’ve said. Now go cry yourself to sleep because you’ve been beaten and beaten and beaten again and again and again. You’re like Cool hand Luke except that you’re not cool. You’re just an idiot, who gets beat and keeps getting back up despite embarrassing yourself with your every utterance.

You have yet to backup anything you've said and I don't hold out much hope that you ever will or that you'll ever be able to carry on a rational conversation since you're so emotionally unstable and completely ignorant.

Ah this is funny, Cairo seems to have stopped answering hermit and i (took long enough to give up) but hell yes, this is the funniest pile of shit i've seen in a while.

Radar mon ami, you can get away with many, many thignson here, including bagging most people but noone, including you has justification yet to bag HB

Just to make sure all bases are covered, I came across this story today which details a scientific finding of a devastating COOLING trend. We're talking about a five degree shift downwards for most of North America, a 10 degree shift downwards for the northeast US and for Western Europe, and no amount of SUV usage will solve it:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/4689103.htm

Uh,..what does this mean? Why is the fish in a bag? Wouldnt plastic be more appropriate or does paper have some additional meaning? Or maybe a bucket or barrel? What is this schooling out of which you speak? Does it refer to a school of fish? Teaching a school of fish maybe? Maybe beating up the fish? Could the rigor of this endeavor break one's arm? Is this kind of like the "Jerk Store" line?

I was wondering what a mook is.

And UT, that article says that one of the working theories is that global warming is to blame for that - the glaciers are melting, which is forming the freshwater lake in the North Atlantic.

It also says that there's nothing we can do.

I think it shows just how much we don't understand - which, of course, works against both sides. However, I think there's a moral argument to the idea that we shouldn't be belching out so many harmful chemicals into our atmosphere.

what i want to know is, what the fuck is a dumbazz?

~james

Maybe a mook is some kind of slight against people that weak mooks clothing? Dumbazz? My guess is a really, really rough bass guitar or something.

Well...maybe the dumbazz is the fish (large mouth dumbazz) that's found in the paper sack, or bag depending on your region, and the mook is a tool used for instruction.

Porn industry insider? Wouldn't shock me.

No, it said it's a term that insiders use to describe the end-users of porn. But I think the entry about it being slang used by Italian-Americans sounds like the most likely origin of the term.

No, no...Its the wooden Kung Fu dummy reference. It all makes sense now.

Hey, can I help it if the term has a variety of uses? :)

The rich, shifting, multiplicity of interpretations is demonstrated.:)

search google for dumbazz, it pulls up a lot of forum posts matching the quality of many seen here on the cellar lately.

~james

Glendora is right by San Fernando and Pasadena...the porn capital of the world...

I was..... sad to reach the end of this thread.

So....... very sad.

Someone hold me.

Over 90% of the porn movies in the world are made in the San Fernando Valley. Most of which are in Chatsworth.......I heard......*ahem*

And the constitution prohibits the establishment of porn and god shooting heroin into the 9th amendment.

Furthermore any cock smoker that thinks otherwise should have his dick slapped out of the mouth of the bottle he has it in.....at work.

Wolf steps slightly to one side to avoid the thunderbolt, looks up at the sky and says, "Forgive him, Lord, He knows not what he says ..."

Ummm ... Cairo ....
 

Abortion is NOT a consititional right. That would require Congress to vote on an amendment to the Constitution. Roe v. Wade is a Supreme Court decision.

The last thing that made it in was the 18 y.o. vote ...

You might want to reread the Consitition. Radar too.

The consititution details a number of different things, including the functioning of our governmental process, and also provides the information regarding the limitations that the govt has with respect to impacting the citizenry.

Just because something is not specifically probited in the constitution doesn't make it legal or allowable.

The Consititution, does not, for example, make any mention of murder ... or drug use. Those are both matters of common law and of the community standard.

Re: Ummm ... Cairo ....
 

Actually Wolf, this is the last amendment, added in 1992:

Amendment XXVII

No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.

Dont worry Wolf, I can throw a bolt of lightning around corners, through flooring, ceilings, you name it.

Give up on what? Trying to clue you 3x losers? I should, why bother?....

I have a life, two kids, and XBX live...why would I want to even try and waste too much of my time on you boorish dolts.

I work HVAC and have a high degree of intrest in the subject. It allows my intrest in chemistry to have tangible real world applications that I(and others) visably appreciate.

The pool was only used to illustrate the overall sensitivity to sunlight that chlorine has.
You are being an ass to infer anything else.

As for the CFC decomposition, it's no big deal. The sunlight repairs it during it's daily process of re-energizing the atmosphere. I'm not saying that CFC doesn't crack ozone, I'm saying it doesn't amount to much. Since the CFC ozone cracking process is photoenergized, the only time CFC is cracking ozone is the same time that THE SUN is generating hundreds billions of ozone molecules at the same time it is ionizing the now liberated chlorine and flourine radicals.

The CFC may be inert and stable until it reaches the stratosphere, but the minute the chlorine loses whatever UV protection the flourine-carbon compund offered, it's own demise towards ionization has begun.
The sun will return the next day(inspite of what these latter day chicken littles tell you) to replenish whatever atmoshere the now vanquished CFC mangaged to crack.

I already stated the preference for pre 1970 chem books-no political bs.
Unless the laws of physics or thermodynamics changed during the 1970's, everything still reacts and decays at the same pre-1970 rate. Sodium is sodium, and oxygen is oxygen.
The only real material advances have been in the areas of polymers and borax/hydrogen generation. Which you won't find in a high school student textbooks these days.

There is a good reason why the southern tip of south america is a near desert. If there is any reason to suspect the ozone void is seasonal, then it would follow that any humans in the affected areas would be better served to take some shelter.
Still, I use UV in HVAC applications to sterilize the air. Unless you happen to have lived in puntes wherever, or be personally aquainted with one who is. I don't believe you. And I don't believe everything I read. I believe what I see, and I've seen how much just a single bandwidth of UV can literally destroy countless critters and compounds from a few seconds exposure.
The light will blast the mold and most scum off an evap coil/air box(take a peek at yours sometime) within 45 days.
In short if this ever actually occurred, an inhabited area getting hit with full spectrum UV.
The entire affected region would be wasteland within a week, uninhabitable in a month.

It is the height of human arrogance to even believe that we can parametrically affect the weather of our planet.

NASA has also reported what looks like a warming trend throughout the whole solar system: Mars(satellite imagery of water flows),
Neptune/Uranus(increased cloud activity),
and even Pluto's(increased cloud activity) atmosphere's have seemed to warm up during this past decade.

I suppose the US is responsible for that too.

BTW. China and India have no restrictions placed on their CFC use/production. I find it amusing that the same year an ozone void decrease is observed, the increased production of CFC and their related appliances in the aforementioned countries is ignored.
Those appliances need repair as well. And the way the HVAC techs used to service stuff here, is the way they are doing it there: venting straight R-12 onto an overheated compressor to unlock it's heat overload switch, venting R-12 and R-22 straight into the atmosphere for any depressurization of the line(leak, filter drier change, upgrade), and lastly burping(venting) the waste gas out of a spent R-12/22 cannister into the air.

We could quit using CFC's and HCFC's altogether and the combined release of China and India over the next decade will more than make up for it.

I don't care about China and India anyway, not as far cfc's go. It's a non-issue. I might as well worry about the sky falling.

I don't hate arabs, just wahabi fundamentalists.

In fact that's your words. I don't hate anybody.
It's too much energy expended towards things/people that I could care less about.

To be more accurate, I despise wahabi fundamentalist.
My desire for the extermination of all palestinians above the age of 4, and the scattering of the remaining children throughout the adoption agencies of the western alliance nations is purely pragmatic. The 5 year olds are largely corrupted and won't forget their parents being put down to easily. The 4 and under crowd can easily be co-opted by barney, sesame street, mickey mouse and the rest of america's legions. The memory of their psychotic parents having bred them to strap a bomb to them will quickly be forgotten in a blur of pokemon and ice cream.

plus you spell dumbass with z's instead of s's. i love that.

~james

I know the constitution backwards and forwards. And anything NOT listed in the constitution is a right of the people or a power of the individual states. But since the 14th amendment limited states to onlly what the federal government can do, that means they're rights of the people.

When you murder someone you're breaking their constitutionally protected right to life. So the fed can get involved. But other law enforcement is the domain of the individual states like theft, etc. But drug use is an inalienable right and the states can't legally stop anyone from any activity that harms nobody but the people willingly involved in it. You can't stop people from eating fatty foods, doing drugs, drinking a lot, smoking, or doing any other peaceful activity (no matter how stupid) as long as their actions don't PHYSICALLY harm or endanger another person or their property. I can take all the drugs I want and the government (state or federal) can't say anything about it, but if I try to force someone else to take drugs, I'm harming others and have committed a crime.

I know the constitution better than nearly all people. I consider it to be the most perfect piece of writing ever devised by mankind. I know the constitution better than many supreme court justices who routinely make unconstitutional rulings. And later they try to use these rulings as a precedent for further illegal actions. They attempt to circumvent the constitution, "interpret" the constitution, ignore the constitution, etc. When none of these things is allowed in their job.