I haven't been keeping up with Gorgeous George's exploits much lately. Ever since he hooked up with the rightwing conservative muslims. What's he been saying?

But then his rapist would have to be tried and would be convicted and end up with a sexual offender tag forever. I wouldn't want anyone to go through that because of Akin. Heck, I wouldn't want to wish Akin, in any sexual manner, on anyone, not even his wife.

Yeah, but I totally understand the sentiment. He's got no effin empathy for rape victims and women in general, because he doesn't ever have to worry about sharing their experiences.

Ya know, I think this is all just a run up to the 'Personhood Amendment'. Im really really glad that I am no longer in my childbearing years. My rights as a person would be akin to those of a slave.

Holy crap. My goofy interpretation of Steve King's quote is actually what his spokespeople are going with!

Good lord. Really? How stupid are we supposed to be? If any of this is damage control then they are completely misunderstanding the damage. "I'm so naive I didn't know such stuff actually happened."

See right through it.

OK now that King guy IS stupid.

It gets better, people. And by better, I mean more insanely creative, the lengths to which the GOP talking heads are rationalizing and justifying and diluting and distracting everyone who has seen the emperor's shiny buttocks.

I give you Mike Huckabee.

According to Mike Huckabee, horrible rapes have created some extraordinary people.

There's more, but really? What is the point? Akin's shown his colors, and people agree with his views about the whole deal, or not. No one's being persuaded. But there are a lot of people who now see clearly what was previously just beneath the surface.

*sidetracking...... maybe.....*


so wait..... we shouldn't kill rape-babies because they might become good people, but it's ok to kill convicts because the chances are they probably did it and a few deaths of innocents is an OK price?

um, and this is all posturing BS too ....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19339362


To publicly urge a same-party candidate to resign, is all about the one doing the urging and not about the fuck-upper.

from your link.

ORLY?

let me guess, that word is "legitimate"? no? "rape"? "woman"? "pregnant"?

I actually can't guess.

What *one* word would change this whole thing around?

.
Attachment 40151

make of this what you will and can
 

The Owner of The Couch forum posted this…

http://www.springerlink.com/content/wp5cnp43k6byxj4d/

…the abstract of which is this…


Is a given instance of rape more likely to result in pregnancy than a given instance of consensual sex? This paper undertakes a review and critique of the literature on rape-pregnancy. Next, it presents our own estimation, from U.S. government data, of pregnancy rates for reproductive age victims of penile-vaginal rape. Using data on birth control usage from the Statistical Abstract of the United States, we then form an estimate of rapepregnancy rates adjusted for the substantial number of women in our sample who would likely have been protected by oral contraception or an IUD. Our analysis suggests that per-incident rape-pregnancy rates exceed per-incident consensual pregnancy rates by a sizable margin, even before adjusting for the use of relevant forms of birth control. Possible explanations for this phenomenon are discussed, as are its implications to ongoing debates over the ultimate causes of rape.

Wow. That's fascinating.

mornin hq

I didn't buy the paper for 40 bucks, so, I don't know what it says. But with respect to pregnancy from rape rates, I've heard from sources I found credible numbers around 5%. So, it's not vanishingly small. And by comparison, pregnancy from consensual sex might be the same or higher (conceivably lower--hehehehe I said conceivably), but, so what?

Poor brother Akin's remarks were not so inflammatory just because of the rate, which he apparently underestimates by a good margin, but because it reveals a huge gap between his understanding and reality. He compounds this error (ignorance is only an original sin, and curable) by doubling down in all his follow up statements. He does eventually say that people do get pregnant from rape, but this is really just the last veil stripped from his true belief. No abortion because the innocent child should not be punished.

That's a noble notion, but his claim that a fertilized egg is a child is unsupported by everything I know. The urge to cue Monty Python's "Every Sperm Is Sacred" as their theme song is almost as irresistible as the claim is ridiculous. Though I can't find a cite right now, it seems clear that this is Akin's position.

"I didn't buy the paper for 40 bucks"

Me neither...the abstract is all I got too. As to what it says, the abstract gives a sufficient overview to work with, hence my suggestion 'make of this what you will and can'.


#

*"a huge gap between his understanding and reality"

Agreed.









*it's the gap my posting of the abstract addresses...Akin believes a woman's flesh is capable of distinguishing between consensual and nonconsensual sex...he believes the flesh can then 'act accordingly'.

If the paper the abstract is drawn from is accurate, then, one potential and unsettling conclusion is a woman's body may indeed distinguish between consensual and nonconsensual sex and, in 'acting accordingly' may become more fertile (or receptive to insemination).

I offer no moral, ethical, or even personal assessment here...just offering up the nugget for each to do with as he or she will.

I googled this...

"Are per-incident rape-pregnancy rates higher than per-incident consensual pregnancy rates?"

...the title of the paper and abstract, and found this...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...n-other-women/

"As to why rape victims would have a higher rate of pregnancy, the Gottschalls put forward a few theories. They look at previous research, which suggests that men are more attracted to women who are fertile and ovulating. In consensual sex, women can decline sex at a time where there might be a high likelihood of pregnancy. That’s not the case in rape."


I prefer the above explanation(s) to the (again) unsettling notion rape could be biologically or evolutionarily beneficial.

In any event, as V says, "(there is) a huge gap between (Akin's) understanding and reality".

I can get the article for free (yay public university!) but I'm not going to post it for legal reasons. PM if interested.

... you were doing much better before this edit.

My theory for why the rate of pregnancy from consensual sex might be lower is that there's just a lot more sex going on, period (hehehe, I said period). Since there is just one chance for pregnancy per month, that rate gets... diluted when there's so much more non-baby making sex is going on.

"you were doing much better before this edit"
 

So: I don't get an A?

*shrug*

I can't believe we're having discussions about the scientific validity of that pasty old white man's statement, when all over the world cats are sneaking into babies' cribs and stealing their breath!

--a public service announcement brought to you by Old Husband's Tales, Inc.

"all over the world cats are sneaking into baby's cribs and stealing their breath!"
 

Everyone knows the babies are askin' for it.

Ch'yeah. Now get in the kitchen, baby, and make me a sandwich.

Don't be silly...that should be 'now crawl into the kitchen, baby, and make me a poop.'

I got carried away, so giddy was I with all this smart boy talk about a statement that deserves no second thought beyond "this Akin guy is stupid and dangerous and a misogynist."

Although I'm sure his handlers have him saying stuff about how much he really loves women and stuff; they make the best sandwiches.

Sorry guys, I was kidding...being my sarcastic old self. ;)

Don't be sorry for being yourself, we love yourself! Or at least I do.

Thanks, mtp! :)

Exactly, and your response was quite appropriate.

But that is mostly less relevant. We know that an adult who still thinks like a child automatically believes what he is told. Therefore children are more often recruited to do things that are stupid or unreasonable. The word 'brainwashing' is simply another description. That person then seeks 'proof' to justify his ideology or feelings. Meanwhile an adult learns facts and numbers. Then uses that knowledge to obtain a conclusion. Also called reasoning.

So what does that say about Akin? Well proven science says his ideological beliefs are wrong. Why then did he also reiterate hearsay(also called junk science) to justify his political agenda? Is he an adult who knows from facts and logical reasoning? Or a child who only recites what the 'powers that be' told him to believe.

Children know mostly from memory - what they were told. Adults use part of the brain that forms after the age of 16. And therefore learn why knowledge from hearsay or observation is bogus.

Reveiw the science. Statistics suggest that women are more likely to become pregnant from sex that occurs during greater emotion. That applies both to rape and to illicit sex (martial cheating). Yes, the pretty boy lover is more often likely to get a wife pregnant than the husband. So why did Congressman Akins recite a conclusion without first learning science? What does he use to make conclusions? Logical reasoning or ideology from the political agenda?

His actions suggest brainwashing by a political agenda has more relevance than facts, science, and numbers. So, does he think like an adult? Or does he recite hearsay and soundbytes like an adult who still thinks like a child?

I don't know. In which instance might I get to punch him in his stoopid face? ;)

Dress up like a fawning conservative bible belt page girl and apply to work on his campaign. You might get a number of chances to do that.;)

I'm an accomplished actress, yes, but I don't think even I could pull off that role. ;)

'So hey, whatever happened to Infi?'

'What you didn't hear about that? She went off to pretend to be a bible-belt religious conservative activist, and fell through a gap in reality. It was brutal.'

'Yeah, I heard her head exploded and some new universe was created.'

If you're an adult, you'll provide a cite for this statement. Otherwise, I'll consider it ideology/brainwashing/hearsay/junk science soundbite from someone who thinks like a child.

You'd be amazed how many of our cultures' assumptions about gender originate with that medieval misundrstanding of female organs. Many of the others originate with the next great scientific misunderstanding which followed on from that during the European enlightenment.

Akin is in a position to MAYBE win, but it's looking grim for him. But the state's demographics strongly favor a Republican win.
Akin has until Sept. 25 to drop out of the race. He hasn't said "no way" yet, but he seems extremely reluctant, in spite of the national party apparatus throwing him under the bus.
If he DOES drop out, there's a very good chance that the GOP could nominate someone with a much better shot, less tainted by the controversy.
If the democrats know what's good for 'em, they're gonna "rope-a-dope" for a while, let Akin's narrow lead hang around until AFTER the deadline, THEN hit him with everything they've got after there's nobody else the GOP can replace him with.

too late to edit - I posted this without seeing that there was a page 2 (with 60 posts per page that is), hence the non-sequitur-ness. still relevant, thread drift notwithstanding.

We've got another one.

How stupid are pasty old white guys trying to look?

They're doing a bang-up job, for sure.

Problem 1: Child-out-of-wedlock is similar to rape.

Problem 2: I'm glad my daughter made a choice I agree with, but I wish I could have forced her to if she hadn't.

ETA: Though it looks like he's not going to disprove this thread's title.

Seriously, America, I think it's time you went to see the school counselor.

Dear Zen,

Please excuse the regular kids in the class. Our dog ate our homework.

Signed,

Epstein's mother

I would love to see an assessment which produces a scatter graph that gets at what activities people see as more "evil" than others. I have this gut feeling that these nutters would place consensual pre-marital /extra-marital sex too damn close to rape, but we'd also be surprised at other human activities which get a pass or an over-reaction.

I wonder if the misstep is not what people think it is, here. I imagine, for example, that his daughter was underage when she got knocked up. What if he was about to say that in her situation it was statutory rape--but she married the guy after all, and it wouldn't make for a very nice Thanksgiving if he accidentally got his son-in-law incarcerated years after the fact.

Still, as a supposed victim of statutory "rape" myself, I know firsthand that the lines are a lot blurrier when it comes to consensual underage vs. forcible. They are still nothing alike.

Then he should have explained that. In your scenario, is he actually ashamed that his underage daughter sinned, wasn't pure?

At what point will he schedule her stoning then? The book most of these guys claim to follow as the only guide to life they need says unmarried mothers should be stoned.

Or would he (or the rest of them) fess up to cherry-picking the parts that suit them/their situation best?

No no, because the woman is too stupid/innocent to make any decision regarding sex. That's why it's always rape, unless the man gets God's permission and marries her first.

Ohhh, Infi you insensitive bitch. That was low. You know damn well that my cat's breath was stolen by a baby in the towers on 9/11.
--a public service announcement brought to you by Tired Old Internet Memes, Inc.

Nonsense. No matter what your religious belief, it must have zero affect on anyone else. Satanic is the man who imposes his religion on anyone else.

Religion is only a relationship between you and your god. Even your church is only a adviser who says at the end the day, "Only you have the correct beliefs." Does not matter if you believe something different from the pastor or church. His job, at the end of the day, is to respect the only relevant relationship - between you and your god.

A church that expels parishioners (because they have different religious beliefs) is the only evil party. If your religious opinions offend anyone else, then that other person is evil. Because your religion is never imposed on them. And their beliefs never imposed on you. Same concepts apply to any non-Satanic person anywhere in the world.

Satan loves when the Pope orders all American legislatures to impose Catholic doctrine on all Americans. No wonder this Pope also all but protected pedophilia. Another example of religion imposing their dogma on all others. Because the Church is even more important than god. And because those concepts even justify the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition.

No wonder women cannot be trusted in any position of authority in Satan's favorite religions.

Good to see you back in this thread again, tw.

Care to back up your statement now?

Nope.

What? that's crazy talk, we all know they don't exist.

Oh dear, I'm so embarrassed. :o I misread what you wrote. I thought you wrote female orgasms. :bolt:


I only remember two illegitimate rapes. Both cases involve consensual sex until they were caught, one by a cop and the other by a relative of the girl. In both cases the girl claimed she was being raped.

I would imagine that the closer society moves towards a right-wing christian ideal, the more 'illegitimate' rapes there will be. As the social consequences for the woman of extra-marital or pre-marital sex increase there would be a greater need to explain it away by designating it as non-consensual.

This may well mean that in stricter families and communities there is a greater risk of consensual sex being classified as non-consensual. Which could then feed back into that family and community and form a greater suspicion of women's claims of rape.

I am unsurprised.

The statement is unsupportable; the statement is false. When you repeat lies like this you severely damage your credibility. You double the damage when (in the same post, no less) you assail someone for doing the same thing:

You've got a lot going for you tw. You squander much of it with such hypocrisy.

Four words were never more mis-matched.:yelsick:

Of course it isn't. Considering the number of statements I have made so contrary to popular belief (ie predicting Desert Storm and its response months in advance, the mythical Saddam WMDs, a financial morass called AIG, stupidity of the Chevy Volt, actual cost of Mission Accomplished, escalating military tensions between China and its neighbors, etc). Since overwhelmingly unpopular statements have been proven correct so often, then you should accuse with caution. Or at least first learn some facts rather than entertain a feeling. The emotional only remember how unpopular those statement were; and forget unpopular statements were also the accurate ones.

Facts come from research into infidelity and propagation of the species. Long known was that infidelity and rape tends to result in a higher fertility. That was never disputed. Researchers have been asking why. Genetic diversity is considered important for the advancement of the species. For example, one in five children are sired by someone other than the wife's spouse. A number that has held consistent even during the 1950s when adults were so more 'moral'. The resulting diversity is considered genetically healthy. A trend that begs the current hypothesis.

A higher fertility rate during rape or infidelity creates increased genetic diversity. Undisputed is the higher fertility rate. The outstanding question is why and how important that would be for survival of the species.

Research with animals in England and Australia both demonstrated that the male who "copulatory ambushes" the female also have sperm with higher fertility rates. The romancing mate or 'pretty boy' male tends to be less fertile. In this case, the rapist and not the victim is more fertile. Bottom line conclusion remains despite unsubstantiated and speculative denials.

Also noted; women tend to become more interested or flirtatious with 'other' males around the time of ovulation. Not only spending more attention on them. But also having increased sexual fantasies about them. Another reason why women tend to have more children from extramarital liaisons - desired or forced.

Other interesting trends also exist. Men under increased stress prefer heavier women with bigger butts. Another trend also believed related to species survival.

Adults who suffered through famines as children or adolescents tend to have fatter children. Also unpopular because many only feel it must be wrong rather than first learn facts. How can a famine decades earlier change genetics? Another question not yet answered. But that trend is also clear. Another trend suspected to be related to survival of the species.

Do you feel those are also wrong ... without first learning facts? Responsible denial means first learning facts before condemning. Shame on you for posting cheapshots.