The Cellar - Israel has opened the gates of Hell

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- Current Events (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

- - Israel has opened the gates of Hell (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=28293)

Undertoad

11-24-2012 06:08 AM

Egyptians aren't taking this lying down!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20475319

Undertoad

11-24-2012 06:32 AM

http://www.france24.com/en/20121123-...-offices-egypt

Muslim Brotherhood offices torched, Morsi on defensive

Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi defended his latest decree granting himself sweeping powers before supporters in Cairo as anti-Morsi demonstrators set fire to Muslim Brotherhood offices in cities across Egypt on Friday.

As enraged demonstrators torched Muslim Brotherhood offices in several Egyptian cities, a defiant Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi defended his recent decree granting himself sweeping powers before a crowd of supporters outside the presidential palace in Cairo Friday.

Undertoad

11-24-2012 06:36 AM

Don't miss -- Buzzfeed: The 10 Most Striking Photographs From Today's Protests In Egypt.

Great photos, you can feel the wrath of the crowd and there are even women protesters risking themselves. There have been sexual assaults of women protesters before, and so the one woman looking all western and wearing jewelry is kind of outrageous in a way.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/summeranne/t...rotests-in-egy

Lamplighter

11-24-2012 08:26 AM

As I follow this on US media, I get the idea that it has little or nothing to do
with the Israeli attacks on Gaza.
...maybe just a coincidence of timing on which our media has imposed a connection.

Morsi is accused of moving more towards a Islamic governing control,
and (more or less) ignoring the large number of minor political groups.
But as you say, UT, "Egypt still has not delivered a constitution
that was due last September at the latest. Nothing official defined
powers of each branch - Judiciary, Parliament, or President."

But in the chaos of such a revolution, it doesn't take much to re-ignite
a smoldering fire.
Those minority political groups certainly want to maintain their influence in the new government.
Unfortunately, some people (especially young men) turn immediately to more destruction of their physical world.

I'm at a point of saying it's too early to judge what Morsi intends,
and whether it is good or bad (for Egypt, for the middle east, or for the US)
At least, I'm not at all sure the US really understands who/what this man is about.

Maybe he's not quite as good a politician as he needs to be.

xoxoxoBruce

11-24-2012 06:59 PM

Here's a pretty good description of what he's done to piss them off so badly.

Quote:

Egypt's president on Thursday issued constitutional amendments that placed him above judicial oversight and ordered the retrial of Hosni Mubarak for the killing of protesters in last year's uprising.

Mohammed Morsi also decreed immunity for the Islamist-dominated panel drafting a new constitution from any possible court decisions to dissolve it, a threat that had been hanging over the controversial assembly.
~snip~
The Egyptian leader also decreed that all decisions he has made since taking office in June and until a new constitution is adopted and a new parliament is elected — which is not expected before next spring — are not subject to appeal in court or by any other authority. He also barred any court from dissolving the Islamist-led upper house of parliament, a largely toothless body that has also faced court cases.

tw	11-25-2012 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 840355)

Here's a pretty good description of what he's done to piss them off so badly.

So what exactly pissed them off? As stated in that quote

Quote:

The Egyptian leader also decreed that all decisions he has made since taking office in June and until a new constitution is adopted and a new parliament is elected — which is not expected before next spring — are not subject to appeal in court or by any other authority.

The constitution was not delivered last summer. So they pushed back its delivery date until last September. It still was not delivered. And no reason exists to believe they will have one next spring.

We can easily speculate Morsi is putting pressure on the Constitutional Convention to get off their ass. In short, we have no idea what his intent is. We only know others became emotional and resorted to violence.

xoxoxoBruce

11-25-2012 11:46 AM

You can "easily speculate" all you want, the Egyptians are pissed about what he's done, as described in the article.

DanaC

11-25-2012 01:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Behind the news stories, are people:

Quote:

My friend and colleague Jehad Mashhrawi is usually the last to leave our Gaza bureau. Hard-working but softly spoken, he often stays late, beavering away on a laptop that is rarely out of arm's reach.

He has a cool head - unflappable, when others like me are flapping around him. He is a video editor and just one of our local BBC Arabic Service staff who make the office tick.

But on the Wednesday before last - only an hour or so after Gaza's latest war erupted with Israel's killing of Hamas military commander Ahmed al-Jabari - Jehad burst out of the editing suite screaming.

He sprinted down the stairs, his head in his hands, his face ripped with anguish.

He had just had a call from a friend to tell him the Israeli military had bombed his house and that his 11-month-old baby boy Omar was dead.

[snip]

Standing in what is left of his burnt-out home this week, Jehad showed me a photo on his mobile phone
It was of a cheeky, chunky, round-faced little boy in denim dungarees, chuckling in a pushchair, dark-eyed with a fringe of fine brown hair pushed across his brow.

"He only knew how to smile," Jehad told me, as we both struggled to hold back the tears.

"He could say just two words - Baba and Mama," his father went on.

Also on Jehad's phone is another photo. A hideous tiny corpse. Omar's smiling face virtually burnt off, that fine hair appearing to be melted on to his scalp.

Jehad's sister-in-law Heba was also killed.

"We still haven't found her head," Jehad said.

And his brother is critically ill in hospital with massive burns. His chances are not good.

Jehad has another son Ali, four years old, who was slightly injured. He keeps asking where his baby brother has gone.
[snip]

Omar was not a terrorist.

Of course every civilian death on either side - not just Omar's - is tragic. The United Nations says its preliminary investigation shows that 103 of the 158 people killed in Gaza were civilians.

Of those, 30 were children - 12 of whom were under the age of 10. More than 1,000 people were injured.

The Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said every non-combatant death or injury was tragic and an "operational failure".

In Israel, too, there were fatalities: four civilians and two soldiers. There were also many injuries. But the fact the Israeli Ambulance Service was also reporting those suffering from anxiety and bruises is an indication of the asymmetric nature of the conflict.

Jehad's baby Omar was probably the first child to die in this latest round of violence.

Among the last was a six-year-old boy, Abdul Rahman Naeem, who was killed by an Israeli attack just hours before the ceasefire was announced.

Abdul Rahman's father, Dr Majdi, is one of the leading specialist doctors at Gaza City's Shifa Hospital.

The first he knew of his son's death was when he went to treat a patient, only to find it was his own boy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20466027

Jehad with his baby son:

Ibby	11-29-2012 05:50 PM

UN General Assembly votes to recognize the state of Palestine on a 138-9 vote

Quote:

The U.N. General Assembly approves a resolution giving implicit recognition to Palestinian statehood despite threats by the United States and Israel to punish the Palestinian Authority by withholding funds for the West Bank government.

BigV	11-29-2012 07:59 PM

I don't understand the United State's opposition to what happened at the United Nations today regarding Palestine's change of status from observer to state.

DanaC

11-30-2012 10:13 AM

Because it puts you at odds with Israel. Britain has a similar, though not as deep, problem with upsetting Israel.

Undertoad

11-30-2012 10:18 AM

The UN created Israel. What could possibly go wrong?

DanaC

11-30-2012 10:24 AM

hahahaha

Altogether now:

[sings]'Dr Pepper, what's the worst that could happen?'[/sings]

Big Sarge

11-30-2012 06:02 PM

I believe Israel should totally assimilate Palestine. Make them all Israelis and give them a vote. If they don't like it, they can get the hell out of Dodge. Of course, this is my biasis based upon religion and upbringing.

Rhianne

11-30-2012 06:23 PM

I believe Palestine should totally assimilate Israel. Make them all Palestinians and give them a vote. If they don't like it, they can get the hell out of Dodge. Of course, this is my biasis based upon religion and upbringing.

Ibby	11-30-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhianne (Post 841125)

:thumb:

Lamplighter

11-30-2012 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Sarge (Post 841122)

I believe Israel should totally assimilate Palestine.
Make them all Israelis and give them a vote.
If they don't like it, they can get the hell out of Dodge.
Of course, this is my biasis based upon religion and upbringing.

I think... but might be mistaken...

That is the case, now. Palestinians in Israel can/do vote.
Israel is turning away from bringing all of the Palestinians
(right to return) into the tent because they would be out-voted.

That may happen anyhow, as the Palestinians population is growing
relative to the Jewish population.

Big Sarge

12-01-2012 12:04 AM

similar to the decline of the wasp voice in the us and the likelihood we will Hispanics will become the majority?

As afar as Palestine goes, It is my understanding the Gaza Strip doesn't have a vote while Palestinians in Jerusalem do.

Lamplighter

12-01-2012 06:02 AM

Quote:

As afar as Palestine goes, It is my understanding the Gaza Strip doesn't have a vote while Palestinians in Jerusalem do.

Right, that's what I was trying to say...

DanaC

12-04-2012 06:23 AM

Apparently, J & J might be going to Gaza in March!

Part of some academic delegation or something. All a bit exciting. It'll be interesting to hear their experiences of the area and the people.

Lamplighter

12-04-2012 07:58 AM

This diplomatic move shows there is a change in world-view developing towards Israel.
Most support Israel's right to self-defense, but Israel's extreme politics in recent years is back-firing...

NY Times
ISABEL KERSHNEr
12/4/12

5 European Nations Summon Envoys of Israel

Quote:

JERUSALEM — Britain, France, Spain, Sweden and Denmark summoned
the Israeli ambassadors to their countries on Monday to protest Israel’s plans
for increased settlement construction, an unusually sharp diplomatic step
that reflected the growing frustration abroad with Israel’s policies on the Palestinian issue.

After the General Assembly voted overwhelmingly last week to upgrade
the status of the Palestinians at the United Nations, Israel announced plans
for 3,000 more housing units in contested areas of East Jerusalem and around the West Bank.

Israel raised particular alarms with its decision to continue planning and zoning work
for the development of a contentious area known as E1,
a project vehemently opposed internationally because it would partially
separate the northern and southern West Bank, harming the prospects
of a contiguous Palestinian state in that territory.<snip>

Philippe Lalliot, a spokesman for the French Foreign Ministry, said in a statement on Monday,
“Settlement activity is illegal under international law,
hurts the confidence necessary for a return to dialogue and constitutes
an obstacle to a just peace founded on the two-state solution.

Does anyone remember the events following the "partition of India" ?

DanaC

12-04-2012 08:53 AM

My Dad saw some pretty shitty stuff in the run up to partition.

Lamplighter

12-05-2012 01:02 PM

NY Times
By SHARON OTTERMAN and JOSEPH BERGER
12/4/12

Cheering U.N. Palestine Vote, Synagogue Tests Its Members

Quote:

Congregation B’nai Jeshurun, a large synagogue on the Upper West Side of Manhattan,
is known for its charismatic rabbis, its energetic and highly musical worship,
and its liberal stances on social causes.

But on Friday, when its rabbis and lay leaders sent out an e-mail enthusiastically supporting
the vote by the United Nations to upgrade Palestine to a nonmember observer state,
the statement was more than even some of its famously liberal congregants could stomach.

Quote:

“The vote at the U.N. yesterday is a great moment for us as citizens of the world,”
said the e-mail, which was sent to all congregants.
“This is an opportunity to celebrate the process that allows a nation to come forward and ask for recognition.”

The statement, at a time when the United Nations’ vote was opposed by the governments
of the United States and Israel, as well as by the leadership of many American Jewish organizations,
reflected a divide among American Jews and a willingness to publicly disagree with Israel.

DanaC

12-05-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 841793)

Apparently, J & J might be going to Gaza in March!

Part of some academic delegation or something. All a bit exciting. It'll be interesting to hear their experiences of the area and the people.

J just confirmed. They'll be going in March. They'll both be lecturing during their stay. Exciting but I am a touch nervous for them :p

Lamplighter

03-03-2013 07:47 PM

Israeli government tactics are looking more and more like a hand-me-downs from WWII

The Guardian

3/3/13

Israel to launch 'Palestinians-only' bus service
across the border of the West Bank towards Tel Aviv

Quote:

The Israeli government will on Monday begin operating a "Palestinians-only" bus service
to ferry Palestinian workers from the West Bank to Israel, encouraging them to use it
instead of travelling with Israeli settlers on a similar route.
<snip>
The Israeli civil rights group, Checkpoint Watch, which monitors the army's treatment
of Palestinians at West Bank checkpoints has reported recent incidents of Palestinians
being ejected from buses and told they were not allowed to board them.

In 2011 Palestinian activists were arrested after they boarded Israeli buses
in the West Bank to protest against segregation.

Will the next step be to require these passengers to wear a :f147: arm-band ?

DanaC

03-04-2013 03:08 AM

Well, they already stamped prison numbers onto Palestinian prisoners' forearms.

Sundae

03-04-2013 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 841797)

Does anyone remember the events following the "partition of India" ?

Before my time. But I certainly learned about it.
There's a lot not to be proud of in English history - I specify English because despite The Union, we were the driving force.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 842012)

J just confirmed. They'll be going in March. They'll both be lecturing during their stay. Exciting but I am a touch nervous for them :p

I'd be nervous too. I think Israel needs to take a long, hard look at itself. But in the meantime innocent people will be exploded. Sorry. Not what you want to hear. But I worried every time we went on the Tube when I was a girl. My prayer to my Guardian Angel every night I was in London was not to be blown up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 855515)

Israeli government tactics are looking more and more like a hand-me-downs from WWII

And some of their clerics could teach the Taliban a thing or two about oppressing women.
I am definitely not an anti-Semite. But all the children of Abraham have questions to answer if their God is truly righteous, and created women as well as men. Animals need to be killed in a special way, you need to eat certain things on certain days, but it's okay to belittle and control and damage the mother of your sons? If they come from such a dirty place, how can they be holy too?

Rant over.
A bit sick of hypocrisy today. Thanks Cardinal O'Brien.

Happy Monkey

06-20-2013 08:13 AM

Anti-Israel terrorists may be numerous, but pro-Israel terrorists are imaginative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MICHAEL VIRTANEN Associated Press

ALBANY, N.Y.—Federal authorities accused two upstate New York men Wednesday of assembling a portable X-ray weapon that they intended to use to secretly sicken opponents of Israel.

Lamplighter

06-20-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 868396)

Anti-Israel terrorists may be numerous, but pro-Israel terrorists are imaginative.

That supports my point above as a hand-me-down from WWII when
the SS was looking for a way to sterilize Jewish men and women.

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