And yet, at the same time, we non-Britons are not of the culture, and so we are not aware of the nuances of it; I'm sure our thoughts on the topic are rather unsophisticated, compared to those who are in the middle of it and pay rent and use services etc.

I bet they're all peeing a lot (all that tea).

But don't forget we on the outside can observe as rational adults, watching emotional children rant about wants, claiming they're needs. :angel:

Except for all the Britons who Googled "What is the EU?" after the referendum's results were announced.

I heard the EU is willing to forgive and forget, let bygones be bygones, and allow the British to stay; but, only if they remove the portrait of the Queen from British coins and currency and replace it with a depiction of the EU flag. Is everyone OK with that?

snigger

Good article here

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-gove-eu-liars

But so what? (rhetorical)

Lions never lose any sleep
over the opinions of sheep.

Until they poison all the meat
And see they've nothing left to eat.

Sheep beget sheep
There's always fresh meat

:violin:
Sheeple
Sheeple who beget sheeple
Are the unluckiest sheeple
in the world

Why did “influencers” get it wrong? Maybe because they’re in their own bubbles. They interact with themselves rather than with average people. What does this tell you about the current political debate here in America? - Robert Reich

A lot of the noise makers have convinced me they are "interacting with themselves". :eyebrow:

:sadsperm:

Lost; or, trying to hide?

BBC says they have been rescued.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-36664896

Were they all named Jonah?

Forecast...

heh very good.


Many brits are now apparently experiencing 'buyer's remorse'. With one of them being a leading Sun columnist who has been a prominent voice for the Leave campaign:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=40158309

A poll done for the Mail on Sunday suggests that of the 17.4 million people who voted Leave, somewhere around 11 million regret their vote.

I think a lot of people treated this referendum as a referendum on Westminster - a way to say Fuck you to the government and political elite

Even those who genuinely wanted the benefits of Brexit claimed by the Leave campaign have now learned that they may have been missold. The two biggest things that sold Brexit, aside from the rather amorphous claims that we could 'take our country back' were an end to free movement of EU citizens to Britain and the funneling of the money we currently send to the EU into the NHS instead. Neither of those things now look remotely likely.

We've gone from being one of the biggest players and powerbrokers in the EU to a fringe state with no voice and no power in Europe, whilst still heavily dependent on the EU for trade and industry relations. The forecasts for our country's economic future look bleak. The most optimistic is that we can retain access to the single market - but we'll do so with no voice or vote in the shaping of that market, whilst still having to adhere to its rules and strictures.

How likely is the second referendum people are petitioning for?

It would require some politician with balls. Unfortunately those few routinely lie to the public. Cameron could have said either he gets a revote or they must dethrone him. That would require balls to put his entire legacy on the line.

No one wants to set precedence; constantly revoting on any referendum. So Englishmen should suffer economically. Other nations are right to say that is good. Especially since it should be a wakeup call to anyone who votes for Trump - or voted for Berlusconi.

A referendum on condemnation is just as likely (and productive). UK can vote to retract the citizenship of Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and some Sun reporters who could not bother to learn facts before making conclusions. Apparently a requirement to work for Murdoch.

Of course, that also will not happen. But it should. Since 'leavers' lied to everyone - even themselves. "Send them back to Syria." Since they and not immigrants are the problem.

Not all Britains voted for Brexit. But every British citizen can and should be criticized for stupidity. Feel free to criticize every UK citizen for voting for change: from a biggest player and powerbroker in the EU and world into a fringe state with no voice and no power. Amazing how so many British adults vote like children. How many Americans were just as easily manipulated to vote for Cruz, Fiorina, or Trump?

Correct - a little over half of the people who voted, voted to leave.

A little under half the people who voted, voted to remain.

Leaving is the stated will of 17.4 million people. The population of the UK is a little over 64 million.

So fuck you with your 'every British citizen' can be called stupid.

Oh, come on. That was funny. ;) Kids lost in Wales? Ba dum dum...

Branyway, I'm getting brannoyed at all the brabrreviations. Not breally, it just seemed a bramusing thing to post. :p:

(probably not called abbreviations? What do you call it...like Bennifer or Brangelina...?)

I don't think such a big change should have been decided on a simple majority.

Some thing like a super majority, 60%, 67%, of all citizens elligible to vote, so not just those who bothered to turn up.


The whole thing was giant cluster fuck

Ha! I honestly didn't get it the first time, infi. You are too sharp sometimes. :)

:)

Ahh, the portmanteaux. That's the word. Brut that doesn't brassist with my brantics.

Unfortunately that is the nature of an election (or referendum). Everyone takes responsibility (or blame) for the results. We (all Americans) massacred 5000 American soldiers for no purpose in Iraq. Completely irrelevant whether I said George Jr (actually Cheney) was a liar. We all decided to massacre them for no useful purpose. We all take blame because a majority did not try to protect them.

All Britains must now take responsibility for those consequences (or flee to Scotland and demand succession or flee to the EU as an immigrant). You do have options.

Does a UK citizenship still provide some rights or privileges in Canada?

Doesn't it look a little like the astro-turfing we get here when the elite want something so they create the support?

I admit I don't know how a country should be run, but it is very interesting how many people are saying DEMOCRACY has failed.

If the vote doesn't go a certain way the most important thing to do is override it. Or vote again until we get it right. Because the people were fooled, misled, and mistaken. Or there weren't enough of them. Or they are too ignorant, in different ways, to be trusted.

I guess I'm with you on this. But I'm not sure how hating on the vote itself, more than the result, is going to work out.

Redoing a referendum is a dangerous precedence. Do other avenues exist in UK constitutional laws (a rather unique expression from UK politicians since the UK has no Constitution)? Is anyone in the UK even discussing this?

I know - you're quite right. It still rankles with me though :P

Aside from the fact all my friends and family are here - and the total lack of anything approaching adequate funds to move house ... Yorkshire is my home. Were I inclined to up sticks once the country runs aground, I'd have done so the moment the Tories got into power. All the shit that has happened to my country - and my class, was depressingly predictable once they were given free reign.

Don't know. Probably not ;p

There are several reasons why people are saying that democracy failed. In terms of the people being misled - yes, they absolutely were. The twomain planks of the Leave campaign have been disavowed by the Leave campaigners now that the vote is done. A significant proportion of voters voted without really knowing anything about it. Many of those voters have since declared that they regret voting the way they did, did not expect it to actually turn into a win for Brexit, would like a do-over knowing now what they do.

A large number, possibly majority, of those voting to leave the EU were using this referendum as a protest vote having felt utterly disenfranchised and left behind by successive governments and oppositions. Democracy had already failed them and this was their expression of dissatisfaction at that failure.

There was no need for a referendum. What was needed was an actual conversation about immigration and about investment in infrastructure and jobs. Instead, governments and oppositions have, for quite some time now, used 'standing up to Brussels' as a way to look strong at election time, or 'not standing up to Brussels' as a scourge for the incumbent party. Nobody in a leadership role has been willing to seriously engage with the benefits of EU membership, or tackle the wildly inaccurate coverage of EU matters in the media. The opening to the final act in this particular frenzy, was the Prime Minister promising a referendum on EU membership in order to bolster his standing coming into an election, a promise that it would be a simple 'in - out' question - because, hey, we really don't want to complicate such an important question of our national future with any kind of nuance*, and was then followed up by leading Tories winding up the Leave campaign in order to cause political damage to the current PM and bolster their chances of winning the leadership election that will follow Cameron's demise.

The leading Brexit campaigner - Boris Johnson, has been previously fired from two jobs, one in journalism and one in politics, for lying. He is one of the biggest sellers of tabloid 'EU rules' lies (straight bananas and prawn cocktail crisps being the most well-known) in the game. Within a few days of winning, he'd been ousted by his former supporter, and didn't really put up much of a fight. In fact he's been strangely absent from much of the fuss in the immediate aftermath - he didn't for example attend the commons debate in the wake of the referendum results. Where was he/ Playing fucking cricket.

This small group of men, most of whom attended the same schools as each other, have played an elaborate game of chicken with each other They've shattered our country in order to play their game.



Nobody expected this to happen. The people who put it out to the electorate expected a narrow win for remain. On both sides. It wasn't meant to happen. It was a political football and nobody expected to actually score a goal with it. I don't think many people who voted Leave actually thought we would. We are so jaded as a democracy that we have a default expectation that nothing will really change. So many people have expressed surprise that Brexit won and their vote was a part of making it so, and many of them have also expressed sorrow that such a thing was allowed to happen. because they weren't really voting on the EU, they were voting against the government and opposition - they were voting against Westminster politics and the politicians who have failed them. Actually leaving Europe wasn't part of the plan for a lot of people who voted to leave.

* For something that could have such a profound impact on the country's future there is also a strong argument for a two-thirds or 60% majority required for change.

That right there is probably a best summary of what just happened. I have never heard is summarized better.

They were lied To? They let themselves be lied to because they were too lazy to find out what was really going on. I'm familiar with the problem, we have it big time.

I'm working on keeping some of you Brits in the EU.

It surely should have required a supermajority. I'm trying to imagine what it would take here. A Constitutional Amendment requires two-thirds vote of the House and Senate, followed by 38 out of 50 states' agreement.

But a treaty only requires two-thirds of the Senate and consent of the Pres. So economic, military, strategic partnerships can happen with a much lower bar to cross.

Like, Canada and Mexico and the US said, "OK now trade is free so bring it on" with just the Senate and Pres. But we couldn't say to Canada and Mexico, "OK, now we are together and just called 'North America' with a new set of rules and people who enforce them", without an amendment at least.

OTOH if they wanted to become US States, and asked nicely, willing to play by our rules, it only takes an act of Congress.

So I guess what I'm saying is, hey Britain, if you really want to play big time... really want to say Fuck You to the frogs in a biiiig way,...and yet still be non-racist and allow a good number of immigrants, State #51 is England and #52 is Wales.

You can change the order if you like. Up to you.

It's been inevitable for a long time. Just finally admit it. We love you, and you love us but kinda not so much. You like us but you don't like like us. We'll be a big dysfunctional family -- which really, we are used to, have you met us?

I know the Scots will not go for it. Not even asking. And Ireland, well, they can either be 53, or 53 and 54, however they want. Of course there will be no official state religion, so might as well go 53.

Hint hint, we would do it just for Bermuda. Have you been? So very nice. So very strategic.

P.S. July 4 is Monday if you can get a vote together by then. Have you tried grilling? Do you have a back yard?

Oh man! Can you imagine Brits having to celebrate their new national holiday, July 4th? I almost think they'd appreciate the self-flagellating irony.

(no special perks for Brits in Canada)

dudes...... a referendum does not create law in the UK. It's just guidance for the government. There have to be politicians in power who agree to act on it. Cameron said he'd push the button immediately if Leave won, but he lied. I think there has to be an act of parliament to push the button. I'd be surpirsed if that happens

Cameron is just a front man for the Silence.

Could that be Britain's out?

Cameron said he would not exercise Article 50. Leaving a next PM to implement it in November. Was that strategy to let cooler heads prevail and then ignore the referendum? Interesting comment. They cannot ignore Propositions in California. But they can ignore a referendum in Britain.

Britain cannot be state #51. Puerto Rico has dibs on that number.

Bermuda - the east coast version of Hawaii. And Iceland - the new Alaska. So much work to be done. Where do so many new stars go on the flag? Pax Americana.

Maybe Britain can exit the EU in principle; but, not in actuality and call it "Brexit with Honor."

Is coming out of the EU like coming out of the closet?

Coming out of the closet, stumbling across the hallway, and falling down the stairs.

The Brexiteers are going to need their own nightclubs.

Awwww ... :hug:

... cont'd.

As soon as those pesky Scots stop fucking with his golf courses. :rolleyes:


edit, told you so.

We have now moved from Bexit to Brexodus. Destruction of the British economy has begun.

Oh well, bring it on : https://www.ft.com/content/72a98d1e-...5-c9357a75844a
:cool:

Financial Times cannot be read without a subscription.

I asked various bank management people where they would move. I expected Frankfort as a most likely center. With Dublin or Paris as alternatives. Some completely surprised me - Belgium will be the new European home of one major US bank.

A banking center in Britain could also service 27 other countries. No longer. Worse place to run operations from will be Britian. To anyone with an education, that was obvious.

GM is continuing to sell off capital assets so that top management can claim big bonuses by creating a (fictionally creating) profit. Next to go will probably be Opel (also known as Vauxhall). Car parts are made throughout Europe. Assembled in Britain. Then sold elsewhere. No longer. Those part both incoming and assembled cars outgoing will be subject to tariffs. So most car production in Britain will close. This is good according to so many Brits; especially in the Midlands.

Best is for Scotland to succeed from Britain before Brexodus happens. Otherwise Scotland will be punished for the stupidity of so many in England. No wonder so many in England like Donald Trump.

Reuters
Detroit News

Headline: "Humble block of cheddar cheese amongst Brexit's first victims" I thought, the fuck! Did somebody read my post or something? Then I noticed: Irish cheddar. Right, eff them! There's no particular need to import Irish cheddar is there? No! British cheddar has actually been defended.

And as far as the pull quote "Nobody else eats Cheddar, it can't be diverted off to France," You could leave EU and join with Britain, only then it would be BR/IE... and once again with the cheese...

Scotland will split off and join Newfoundland. They're closer than the US mainland and Hawaii.
You heard it here first... or 5th... or 50th. ;)

Prime Minister May will now demand that Ireland pay for the wall. Did she and Brexit extremists not say that yet?

The second most common phrase in British history is, "We've have finally solved the Irish problem once and for all." The most common phrase is, "What do you mean, the Irish are in revolt, again?"

h/t Mike Konrad

I've frequently hear the Irish are revolting. :yesnod: