:eyeball: :corn: :eyeball:

That kind of deserves it's own thread, don't you think?

I forget the quote exactly, but Eleanor Roosevelt said something along the lines: Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people.

I hate to say it, but it seems like politics has moved towards the latter. C'mon people, quite perpetuating what the politicians are already doing, and perhaps things will improve to the way government was originally, about ideas.

Well I do have this picture of garnet and her boyfriend...

http://www.zoofur.com/fr-rhino.jpg

Actually my boyfriend is pretty "well-hung" as they say... I've got no complaints in that department.

...wow. I used to think the Cellar was someplace I could go to discuss ideas and other people's thoughts about ANYTHING and not have people chastize and belittle others just for the hell of it.

Guess I was wrong.

I would bet that I am WAY younger than alot of people here and yet, am I the only one who thinks all this mudslinging between lumberjim and others is just fucking rediculous?

Try this children, take your fighting to PM's and stop wasting our time on the threads.

lighten up, sissy.

:wstupid:

One more reason not to be a rhinochick--jesus. All that male-rhino weight on your back...though,it is a pretty incredible wang. Like Kurt Vonnegut said, "you never know who'll get one"--(a big wang, that is)

bullit, it wouldnt be funny in pm form. i dont know garnet from adam, i only pick on her because she picks back and it's funny. if i was to abuse a no-sense-of-humor-havin'-neckless-chinless-fireplug like you, it would be mean. with garnet, it;s like throwing rocks at a brick wall. no harm, no foul. now go back to lurking before i have to scold you again.

Somehow this level of discourse just seems a perfect mirror of this new dawn for America. Cheney's mandate.

I admire Kerry and I thank him for giving me a national voice for a while. This liberal isnt going away. Stand up, keep fighting. I'll resist our trek to the rapture and continue to encourage debate.

I believe that moderates and sanity will prevail. Even if it puts Wolf out of business ;)

Fully agree, Warch. :thumbsup:

(we now return you to, uh, "retarded")

not retarded...sick and tired and fed up, yes. Retarded--not so much.

jus' tryin' to distract ourselves from horrible reality.

Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that you'd be so quick to bend over.

If I'm a lurker It's because I actually have better things to do than sit on a blog ring all day long waiting for people to respond to my inane and pointless comments.. like you for example LJ.

Maybe you should stop spending all your free time here and go try to get a better job than selling used rust buckets.

I understand where you're coming from Briana... I want out... I'm f*cking scared shitless of the moral agenda shiotstorm that is brewing here now, I don't agree with them and I am more or less powerless to do anything about it right now, in two years when the house comes up for vote... bush will be reduced to a lame duck resident, and then 'we' might have a chance to do something about it. until then, ya know a nice vacation might be in order.. a working vacation that is.. personally I'm looking into Ireland or Australia (canada is still too close.. although I would get to keep more of my 'junk'...shipping costs and all that :) ) but! what I was kinda wondering, is that if any of you fine cellarites have any information on the cultures of these two countries ( I applied and was accepted for Irish citizenship in the mid90's.. and do to some VERY bad decisions on my part I didn't go) BUT! I was wondering what has changed (if anything) websites are handy and all, but it doesn't really get to the 'nitty-gritty' of how a counrty actually works.. ya know?

For anyone thinking of moving to Canada , don't start buying those hockey tickets yet.

See if you qualify to emigrate there as a skilled worker.

Whoohoo! I'm right at the passing mark--67!!!

I'm sure Canada is a nice enough place, but I think I'll stay here. I love this country, and will continue to push for what I think is right. And I'm confident that the liberals will have their day in the sun again.

Cowhead, you are welcome to come to Australia. We have great weather, a friendly attitude, and a booming economy. Unfortunately from your view point, we currently have a right wing federal government, but with the exception of getting us involved in Iraq, they have done a pretty good job. They are nowhere near as extreme as GWB or his men.

If you come to Sydney you can expect warm, sunny, clear days 80% of the year. You can go surfing at one of our magnificent beaches after a day's work, or go sailing on the harbour. Brisbane is similar, but hotter. Melbourne is cold and wet during winter, but has a good social scene, and good restaurants.

You would have to be prepared to pay more for petrol than you do in the US. It's hovering around $1.10-$1.15 per litre, but this is still cheaper than many countries. Speaking of litres, we use the metric system (like Europe), but this won't take you long to get used to. At least we use dollars and cents, and we have nice colour coded money, so it is easy to tell the difference between a $5 and a $50.

Come on over. Bring your family. Bring your friends! :)

what job could be better than selling used rust buckets? there's certainly no profit in selling new ones. And as long as there are lemmings like yourself out there to fall for my lies and deceptions, my family will have a nice lifestyle. I'll be able to buy all the plaid sportcoats, cologne, and gold pinky rings i need, and blow all the extra cash up my nose. hey, know anyone that needs a quality preowned automobile? cheap? all of my cars are one owner, all highway miles, little old lady from pasadena cars. trust me. schmuck.

I've often thought of moving to Australia, but they have the toughest immigration laws I've ever seen. Someone told me you must prove that you can do a job that nobody else in Australia can do in order to get a work visa.

That's not entirely true. It depends on your country of origin. The tough rules are meant to keep out an avalanche of people from third world countries. People from North America, Britain and western Europe have an easier time getting in. As long as you meet the education and work experience requirements, it is usually not too hard. It also depends on whether you want a simple work visa, or to emigrate. The latter is much tougher than the former.

Because if you're white, you're all right! :thumbsup:

;)

I'm a very capable computer network engineer. I was once offered a tempting computer science teaching position by an Australian school that had a campus in Vietnam. RMIT - Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology.

But the tough part is I have a wife who would be with me and she actually is from a third-world nation. I'd probaby just want a work Visa, but if things worked out, I'd probably want to stick around.

Now Syc, that is *not* fair. I did not say that we only take Caucasians. We actually have a large intake of third world immigrants every year. I think per capita, Australia takes more than any other country. We have a very multicultural society. In my suburb we now have hundreds of people from Africa - places like Nigeria and Somalia. The only problem I have with these people is that the government brings them in on compassionate grounds, and then just dumps them in the community with little or no support. Some of them spend years on welfare without finding a job. It's not their fault, it is the government not following through on a commitment. There is nothing wrong with their skin colour!

Radar you sound ideal. Your wife would be welcome, I'm sure. Come to Sydney, though - Melbourne is too wet. ;)

Dude, I was totally fucking with you. :)

Well, I wasn't sure, but many people do believe what you said. We had an immigration policy in the 50's and 60's that was known as the White Australia Policy. We've gone almost completely in the other direction since then, but there are people who think it still operates.

I've always told people that if they're not happy with the politics of this country, feel free to go somewhere else. Canada is a good choice but you better start now, the process takes a while and it'd be better for the rest of us if you were gone by the next election so we don't have to put up with all your whining again. Don't let the door hit you in the ass! ;)

The reason the Left failed is real, real simple. The people who enjoy the blessings of Liberalism don't appreciate them, and are unwilling to fight for them. Until the Right does something *so outrageous* that it is undeniable that fascism is underway, all of us tree-hugging, dope-smoking, laid-back, peace and loveniks are just going to keep playing Nintendo and typing on these online forums.

I wish that the Right would just cut to the chase and declare non-Christian religions to be a potential terroristic threat and outlaw them. Then, we could get right to the Civil War without all the mucking around and pretending that we have rights.

Well, I'm not going to Canada...I'm undereducated and I don't speak French.

Ha, that's why I own a 2004 Honda Civic. Cause it's gonna outlast any POS you sell. And I'm not Jewish, so you wasted a perfectly good schmuck on me.

thanks bluesdave, if it comes down to it I hope to buy you a beer watching some surfers. heh broke my knee in an old skateboarding accident.. so not so much (respect the art though).. thankls (and from here I ought to go to another thread... I'm an american and once proud to be one... now? no. and that's sad... this is NOT again NOT my government. and NO I will NOT take up arms against my 'brothers' (long story))

I wouldn't suggest living in Sydney to anyone :p
RMIT however rocks and skilled immigration isn't hard at all. Their computer system however is a running joke, massively over budget and mostly utterly incapable of doing it's job so you'd have plenty of work. Gun laws are a touch tougher than you're used to over there though.

what I meant to say was "thank you Bluesdave" for answering that question, I have a couple more of them for you though....

1.) what's the exchange rate
2.) do they like fairly 'rockin' guitar player (loud rythmic)
3.) do I 'AVE to drink fosters? (bleargh! tastes like like.. bud.. but somehow worse)
4.) what sort of diet (other than seafood) is 'regional' (never heard of australian cuisine) AND NO 'shrimp on the bar-bee jokes need apply :)) (too easy!) crock? (good eats by the by)
5.) I don't care if they support the war, as an american do you think I would be shunned by that alone? (f*ck I'd be an ex-patriot! that's gotta count for something!)
6.) does the toilet water really go the 'other' direction? Counterclockwise?

Well, he's already said that athiests aren't really citizens so we're on the way.

That was his dad.

Sorry folks, but.....
 

I hate to tell all of you but,........http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=6704292

You'll have to stand in line with the rest of the refugees. Hope you like snow and salted fish.


-Walrus

You say that as if there is a difference.

There's a huge difference. W has been very open to people of no faith.

Being open is not nearly equal to the money he sinks in his faith at my expense.

Not his faith, all faiths.

Bush beat Kerry amongst Catholics

Bush also beat Kerry among idiots.

What are you gonna do when you've got wingnut Bishops openly advocating Kerry's excommunication, and saying that voting for him is a sin? Even when the Pope disagrees?

Cowhead use your Irish cizitenship (you got an Irish grannie right??)..go live in Dublin, weather sucks the people are nice..I miss home..I'd move back but I have too many ties where I am living now

From Positive Atheism

(Emphasis and italics added)

"Religious freedom and tolerance is a protected right. I am committed to the First Amendment principles of religious freedom, tolerance, and diversity. Whether Mormon, Methodist, Jewish, or Muslim, Americans should be able to participate in their constitutional free exercise of religion. I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it.
-- George W. Bush, second remark, October 15, 2000, Web, White & Blue 2000, Rolling Cyber Debate question: "With religious diversity increasing, what are your thoughts on the protection of religious freedom and the separation of church and state? Should religions like Wicca be banned from recognition by the military, as some legislators suggest?" Bush honors diversity, but only within certain bounds, saying nothing in favor of one's Constitutional right to freedom from religion (he's against it: see below) and speaking out once again against Americans' right to practice the Wiccan religion with the same freedoms enjoyed by those who practice Bush's own religion of Evangelical Christianity.
Notice how Bush does away with the Wiccan's right to religious liberty by redefining Wicca as not a religion and further denigrating it with the term witchcraft. In the same way, atheism, that is, the freedom from government-imposed or government-sponsored religious intrusion, being not itself a bona fide religion, is twisted by Bush to become a viewpoint or practice or right that is not covered under the First Amendment guarantee of religious Liberty. (To be fair and honest, Bush's opponent, Al Gore, slyly answered every other element of the same question, but silently passed over the part about Wicca.)"

How's Melbourne? I might like it there.

I'm glad we have clarified the semantics from "his faith" down to "everyone except Wiccans in the military".

Because I believe this election was lost by over-reaching, self-indulgent attacks causing the base to react in kind.

I believe that the two are inextricably linked. I don't believe that he is capable of seperating his decision making skills from his revelatory dependency.

I won't disagree with that.

Well, be part of the solution. W just noted in his press conference that all Americans of any faith or of no faith are equally American.

If you're scared, get a dog.

I don't have TV, sorry. Is there a webcast?

And I am part of the solution. I just haven't had the opportunity to gripe about Kerry yet. :)

I'm an equal opportunity pessimist.

Edit:

I was able to generate a link to the video of the speech, but I can't get it to save from the link.

Here

1. 75 cents US/Aussie which means that your dollars are worth approx 25% more down here.

2. I'm sure there are plenty of good rock bands down here - I'm into Jazz and Blues, unfortunately, so I'm not up on the rock scene. Jag probably knows some.

3. There's a wide range of beers available, don't you worry about that! We make the best wine in the world, too (that's official)!

4. Well seafood is very popular, and we have the best seafood in the world, but we also have good red meats, pork, chicken etc. You can also buy meat like kangaroo and buffalo in some supermarkets. I know there are restaurants serving crocodile, but I don't know if you can buy the meat itself anywhere.

6. Yes, but this is actually quite a difficult experiment to set up correctly. Generally, toilets and sinks (basins), are too small to show the effect reliably. Water can go in either direction depending on the design. BTW, it is clockwise in the southern hemisphere and counter clockwise in the north.

Melbourne is cold and wet. It has large, straight roads laid out in a grid (because the city was designed from day one), and has a good transport system - trams and trains. Melbourne is cold and wet. It also has good restaurants, and supposedly a better social life (debatable). Melbourne is cold and wet. The people are more conservative, and withdrawn. Melbourne is cold and wet.

Sydney on the other hand, is friendly, bright and breezy. We love outdoor activities, enjoying life, and the sun shines 80% plus days of the year. Sydney people are friendly. Our road system sucks because Sydney was never designed - it just grew. Our transport system is having some troubles at the moment - mainly the trains, which can be a little unreliable. Our buses and ferries are good though. Sydney is a sunny, bright, friendly, and happy place.

Melbourne is cold and wet. :p

I was waiting for a transcript

Relevant section:

When they do right, you must notice them doing it.

Well, he has spoken well. Let's see if he delivers.

Plan to leave the U.S.? Here are the options. The work "bleak" springs to mind.

Does no one besides me find it a bit arrogant that W presumes to draw the line at accepting religions that *he* finds acceptable? Or did I miss the part in the Constitution that said "freedom of religion as determined by the sitting President"? If Wicca, for example, is not specifically included in the Army Chaplin's handbook as an "official" religion, and therefore to be allowed, you can bet your sweet ass it will be *disallowed*, and therefore suppressed.

His dismissive attitude toward Wiccans (and any other path not specifically included in his rather small list, by association) is a fine illustration of his overall attitudes towards Americans. (Not a quote, but might as well be) "If you aren't a big enough or rich enough group, fuck off. You have no benefit for me or my ilk to gain from you."

Face it folks...you are entitled to as much equality and as many rights as you can afford to pay for, and not a bit more. If you have the bad judgement to follow an obscure religious path, or the bad fortune to be impoverished, old, sick or handicapped, you really shouldn't be in a healthy society anyway.

well, i guess you told me.

note to self:
never argue with bullit. he's scary smart.

Note to self, LJ is also scary smart. Any arguments with him will get nowhere.

i refuse to get into an argument about GWB's views on the issue, but to clarify - the military chaplaincy recognizes anyone's right to worship anything they want. the difficulty and some of the conflict stems from the military's inability to provide a chaplain for every faith group. a base only has a certain number of billets for chaplains and they are filled with, generally - 1 catholic priest and a couple protestants of various denominations, and if it is a very large base they may have a rabbi, and on rare occassions an imam.

LDS, orthodox, JW's, etc... are assisted in finding a like group in the local community or if there is a large enough group they will be provided a spot on base.

part of the reason that chaplains only fall into the basic categories of catholic, protestant, jewish, muslim, (and a few eastern orthodox) is primarily funding. if there are only X amount of slots allowed then it makes sense to fill them with an individual that can minister to the greatest number with a common faith. the second is educational/financial. chaplains are officers due to their educational background. the chaplaincy argued for years before admitting muslim chaplains because a catholic priest or Lutheran minister must spend years in formal education before entering the chaplaincy - to make sure that everyone was treated the same there was a requirement of an Master's of Divinity for any chaplain candidate - even for denominations that don't require one for ordination.

anyway - that is a little insight into the military chaplaincy and it's workings. i can assure you that a wiccan group (sorry i don't know the right terminology) has the right to worship even in the military. the only minority group that i am aware of having their requests rejected was a group of "satanists" (read drunken 19 y.o. jackasses that weren't practicing anything other than ruffling feathers) demanded that they be allowed to use the cross from the catholic service as part of their ceremony. the request was rejected with the caveat that if they could show proof of some organized group of likeminded individuals on base that a cross would be purchased specifically for their meetings in the next budget go 'round.