Why not?....every time I read about them I say, "Aw, fer Christ's sake". :blush:

It is all about greed indeed. Subjugation by religion is only a means to an end.

IMO The islamic 'holy warriors' are severely dishonorable in their tactics. Some people consider them desperate but they should consider that these people go home at night to make their familys unwitting human shields. Their lack of uniforms or orginization makes everyone around them targets also. It's not a question of wealth. These are some of the richest people per capita in the world. It's a question of courage and disregard for their peers.

how the hell did this spawn from a picture of a woman getting her ass whipped?

This is wrong. Who needs religion to see that?

Oh stop acting like this is just an islamic problem, let's not forget the rule of thumb.

What does this statement mean, and where is it comming from? Whose perspective is it from? What is their background? Why do they say these words? What part of the world is enlightened? What IS enlightened?

I may be wrong, but I'd say it's a statement comming from a person who lives in one of the worlds wealthiest countries who has access to all the rudiments of 'enlightened' society and whose position in that society has been formed through attitudes of colonialism (is the extension of a nation's sovereignty over territory and people outside its own boundaries, often to facilitate economic domination over their resources, labor, and often markets under the guise of emancipation) and social darwinism since birth.



It's all a matter of perspective.

If someone grabbed Mrs. Fargon and started to beat her they would be dead. I can see no other reason to wipe these people off the face of the earth than pictures like this.
Jesus will do that upon his return.

Any culture based on the debasement and enslavement of women needs to become extinct. Islam is a cancer.

There are plenty of people in middle England who believe caning should be brought back in schools. There are those who go further and believe that flogging criminals ("the birch rod") would benefit the country and bring down crime rates. And in polls, a small majority of the country would like to see the death penalty returned as they believe it is an effective deterrant.

Surely if you live in a country that either has, or would like to have the death penalty you shouldn't be shocked at a sliding scale which involves someone fully clothed being hit with a stick?

The person in the picture has broken the laws of their religion and therefore the law of the land. Why does a picture of them receiving their punishment provoke outrage? If the subject were male and had keyed someone's car, would people still be suggesting that the country needed to be wiped out like a disease?

Yes. :)

Someone I used to know keyed another woman's car because they got into it over a parking space at the supermarket.

Ever since then I've been very polite when it comes to who gets what space.

It makes me mad to see someone being beaten simply for acting like a human being. She has a boyfriend, she wanted to be with him, perhaps yearned for him, and got caught acting on her natural emotions of wanting to be with him. She is really being punished for having love/sex feelings--a natural thing. Her evil female-ness must be subjugated and therefore, she is beaten. She is beaten for having a woman's heart. When countries treat the other half of their population like this, it makes me mad. Probably because I am a woman. Anyway, it's wrong to beat people, the law or culture be damned. Couldn't the punishment be that she has to make 1,000 pots of rice or something?

That's a lot of rice...

This is why I have nothing but contempt for Muslim societies. It is easy to say something like "it's just their culture", but a culture can change.

Back during the period of the civil rights struggles in this country, whenever I said something bad, but true, about the white trash society and government in the South, somebody would say "It's not their fault. They were just raised that way."

But people can change. Besides, it is not as if there were no mention of any alternatives. In the South, there were people working for civil rights. The alternative was there, so the choice could be made.

The same is true of Muslim societies. They know that they treat women differently from most of the rest of the world. The alternative is there.

My son installs dish antennas. When he is called to a Muslim house, he is often not allowed even to speak to the wife. Not even to ask if the picture is clear. The husband will get angry if he asks that question.

And this is in this country, where alternatives are obvious.

Of course, some Muslim women, such as those that work with my wife, are emancipated. But not with any help from that religion. In fact, they are not practicing Muslims at all.

No, we are a civilized country. We could never condone a punishment for a criminal like giving them a beating, we just lock them up and look the other way when the other prisoners give them a beating and gang rape! That's justice served! :eyebrow:

We last publically executed a person in 1936 and every time I hear of a sex offender/murderer/gang member/etc on television it is followed up with discussions of public beatings/hangings. The preventive measures, many say, of the fear instilled in others would lower the crime rate.

Oh? They deserve it because the crime they commited was severe where this woman has done nothing wrong? Ahh...

But people can change. Besides, it is not as if there were no mention of any alternatives. In the South, there were people working for civil rights. The alternative was there, so the choice could be made.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been under the impression that these people don't want to change even if given the option. Who are we to tell them they should or should not live their lives as they wish?

From here

Obviously this is just following up on my previous post as to whether it is the gender, the crime or the punishment which people find offensive. In this case the gender and the crime have changed (okay, and the picture hardly qualifies as IOTD).

I haven't been able to find any details on the case in the OT, but it is possible - even likely - that the boyfriend also received 100 lashes.

Not all Muslim countries are grossly unfair to women and not all Muslim women are oppressed. Pakistan is a Muslim country that had a female head of state, something that the US has not managed yet.

Of course I appreciate that some nations and individuals are oppressive and violent towards women. And I accept that many of these people use their religion to justify this behaviour. But IMO it's blinkered to jump to the conclusion that this is the case worldwide and all Muslims' minds should be changed for them - by whatever means we deem necessary.

OK. Help me get this straight once and for all. Someone who has actually read the Koran - does the Islamic religion specify this subservient role for women, or is it the culture?

Pakistan is a mixed bag, as shown by those who shelter Bin Laden. In the picture, activists want to tear down the sign because the face of the woman is shown.

What would they think of Dame Edna?

I haven't read it, but have been an interested listener in discussions with people who have. I'd be interested in the opinions of anyone who has first-hand knowledge of course.

Women are required to be modest, and men are definitely the head of the household. Women whould be treated with compassion and understanding, but in general they are viewed differently to men and subject to different treatment. This should not make them second class citizens however.

Of course St Paul had some of the same views (from Ephesians 5 for example): Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Nope, Elspode, I am with you on this one. Bush wears the mantle of religion but seems to be one of the least "Christian" presidents I've seen. I also fear the way we seem to be heading down the theocracy trail. It boggles the mind to hear so many people howling about "taking the Christ out of Christmas" or some such nonsense, as though Christians are a persecuted minority here. Many of them seem to think that if they cannot have their religion out in public, on public property, and everyone exposed to it 24/7, that somehow infringes on their rights.

I would also point out that Bush has not had a lot to say about Islam in general. Notice how careful he is when he talks about Islamic terrorism: it is always the Fundamentalists who "twist Islam" etc. (although they are the ones blowing things up). He sure would not want to offend his cronies in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Kuwait, or the Emirates!

Chris

Found this at the BBC archive from June 2005:

Aceh gamblers caned in public:

Fifteen people were caned for gambling offences outside a mosque in the town of Bireuen on Friday.

Aceh implemented partial Sharia law in 2001, as part of an autonomy deal offered by the Jakarta government. The province has a higher proportion of Muslims than other areas of Indonesia, and many Acehnese practice a stricter version of Islam.

The 15 men were flogged with a rattan cane on a specially-constructed stage in front of the Grand Mosque following midday prayers on Friday. Another 11 people are due to be caned at a later date.

According to reports from the scene, the event was more of a festival than a punishment exercise. According to a BBC reporter in Bireuen, Maskur Abdullah, crowds of people, including children, watched the proceedings - cheering and booing as the culprits were brought onto the stage to receive their punishments.

One of the convicted men even faced the crowd afterwards and showed told them he had felt no pain, our reporter says.

On Thursday Bireuen's district chief Mustafa Geulanggang explained why the authorities had decided to implement caning as a punishment.

"It's not about pain," he told the BBC. "The aim is to shame people and deter them from doing the same criminal acts in the future."


Kind of reminds me of old skectes and paintings of beheadings in England and France or perahps a public flogging there; all the peasants gathered around in a party like atmosphere. The sad thing is that statistically speaking, punishments like this or even the death penalty have little effect in crimes of passion or in the heat of the moment. :sniff:

You make that sound like a bad thing. :eyebrow:

A lot of people here seem to be of the opinion that even if it's the culture to blame rather than the religion, that people from these countries should be forced somehow to change.

I suppose that's all ok except; what makes it your business? Would any of you appreciate someone comming to your country and telling you how to live your life? Would you like it now? Would you have liked it two hundred years ago when slavery was still the fashion?

When children play, how many mothers here have heard their child arguing with another but has refrained from intervening because they know that sometimes children need to sort things out for themselves?

I agree, cultures change and also that perceptions and interpretations of holy books change or are different from place to place. I don't agree that any of us can sit in our comfortable chairs and think we have a right to say how another culture/religion/country should be run. This is the 21st century. Has the western world learned nothing from past mistakes?

They self identify as Christian.

Probably for marketing purposes, like the Scientologists' claim that you can still be Christian and a Scientologist.

They identify as xtian so they can donate to the republicans.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20.../index_np.html

Bad Moon on the rise
Overcoming his church's bizarre reputation and his own criminal record, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon has cemented ties with the Bush administration -- and gained government funding for his closest disciples.

...more...

Although I'm not surprized, it makes me sick.
I think this is just another example of Bush trusting the scum around him. :mad:

Cool! then it's OK for me to bomb an abortion clinic and whack an MD who performs abortions?

Excellent!
[/sarcasm]

Would they allow Dame Edna to be in the same room with a man alone?...possums?