Geez...I'm glad I never lied about sex!

Did I say they were "equivalant"? Not that I buy into your breathless demonic characterization.

There's a clear difference between Bush and Clinton on the "lying" front. Bill Clinton is an admitted liar, and everybody knows it, including Clinton; none of the relevant facts are in dispute. Furthermore, he ruined his cred for something as trivial as a bit of illicit nookie...a mess of pottage if ever there was one.

Even if I were to buy into your characterization of Bush (I don't), at least Bush got something done with it policywise. And he still is a more effective Chief Executive than any potential candidate on the other side.

C'mon, tw...who do you support for President in '08? Or are you just a slagmeister?

Effective at what?

As the construction would suggest, effective at being Chief Executive.

OK, this is where you express disbelief and mock horror, and imply that no right-thinking person would feel that way. As I've said here before, I voted for Gore first time around becvause he seemed brighter than Bush. But when the shit hit the fan on 9/11/01, I was glad he hadn't been elected.

I still feel that way. None of the last two Democratic candidates, nor the last two Democratic presidents, nor any viable Democratic candidate in '08 strikes me as being a capable POTUS in the current situation. The post-cold-war era is turning out to be 'way different from how most people expected it to be.

So in times of crisis, you think a dimwitted brute makes a better leader?

Do you think Gore would have gotten us into the Iraq quagmire?
Do you think Gore would have polarized the world, emboldening Iran and Venezuala, for example?
Do you think Gore would have chipped away at our civil liberties like this?

What good has Bush done regarding 9/11 that you think Gore wouldn't have done?

He certainly is. No previous president ever got us into two wars and then lose both ... by even violating simplest principles taught in Military Science 101. Instead the mental midget president destroyed both army and police. He even left the country in looting and did nothing. According to MaggieL, this is an intelligent president. Extremism is alive and well.

Situation Called Dire in West Iraq
Anbar Is Lost Politically, Marine Analyst Says
Extremists must deny this reality.

I think Gore would have done what Clinton and Carter did, and what Kerry promised to do: pretty much nothing.

I don't have to buy into your characterization either. In fact, sometimes the smartest people make really crappy leaders.

Ignoring the "who do you support" question, eh? OK, we'll put you down for "slagmeister" then. You just enjoy the namecalling too much.

There's all kinds of extremists...because there's so many ways to be extreme.

Repeatedly, crappiest leaders have MBA degrees. This one is just another classic example of MBA educated leaders. Oh. Extremists don't like facts? Let's see. America was not kidnapping and torturing people in secret prisons all over the world. And since American leaders lied about it, then that too is good and acceptable. Wow. This is how democracies get destroyed. Extremists deny all reality, promote hate, and get into power.

Let's see. Israeli planes could clearly see who were innocent civilians and could clearly see Hezbollah rocket launchers to attack. That also was classic extremist rhetoric posted in direct contradiction to obvious reality. Why are you lately posting outright and obvious lies like this? Just from my tone in that last discussion, you were caught boldface lying about what Israeli warplanes attacked. Now you call George Jr effective? Where was he when New Orleans most needed his help? Where did he go after Brownie all but begged on his knees for presidential assistance? George Jr did a campaign fund raiser in CA when New Orleans so desperately needed him. That is effective leadership? Only a super biased extremist would say so.

"A second plane has just struck the World Trade Center. America is under attack." Clearly an effective leader would just sit there reading a child’s book - and not ask even one question for 15 minutes. Clearly this is a genius. He can do everything that a most incompetent leader does – and MaggieL calls him effective.

I agree. And I think we'd be in much better shape if Bush had done pretty much nothing after 9/11. He has failed miserably in the war in Afghanistan, where the Taliban controls most of the country again; in the war in Iraq, where the US soldiers don't control much but the airport; and in the war against terror, where Osama is still free and nobody is cooperating with us any more. Bush is making more terrorists than he's killing.

I don't avoid honesty. You know that MaggieL. You know that quite well having been caught doing what I have so much contempt for - outright and intentional lying. Let's never forget how those Israeli pilots were clearly and carefully targeting only Hezbollah ... all the way up to Lebanon's most northern Akkar province.

Your love of this mental midget has demonstrated lately how extremist bias overwhelms logical thought. He lied about extraordinary rendition and torture. And MaggieL praises him for it. He so fears American decency as to now call for laws that ban the Supreme Court for forcing him to be a decent man Well, the drug addict Rush Limbaugh also tells his listeners to rationalize same lies. It occurs too frequently. When Rush decrees something, MaggieL says same.

Extremists are alive and well - and are now causing us to lose two wars simultaneously. Do we have 20,000 permanently disabled Americans yet do to George Jr's religious crusades? After all, god told him to do it. If god talks to him, then George Jr must be an effective leader - on the road to hell.

tw, who do you support for President in 2008?

Hell. Take away extremist rhetoric and the US never even controlled the road between Baghdad and Baghdad's airport. With too few troops and leaders that lie, we could not even control that five mile road three years ago. And yet extremists were telling us how "the war against terror is being won". Amazing how after so many lies even about WMDs, that most Cellar dwellers (American and from other nations) don't rise up and condemn these extremists.

During "The Road to 9/11", I expected so many here to notice how often foreigners, at great risk to themselves, came to and warned Americans of threats. Notice how that does not happen today. Somehow bin Laden can most about freely and America has not received a single tip in two years as to where he might have been. But then extremist leaders make more than just enemies of centrists who demand honesty. American approval rating was once 70%. Tips on terrorist attacks flowed in freely. Now that the scumbag president has put the approval rating at 15%, why would anyone help Americans? They are not. No one wants to help a country lead by scumbags.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management - even if god talks to them.

No one. There are insufficient facts to make such decisions. And historically, we rarely know who really leadership material is until a last six months.

Currently on my favorites list is McCain. In the face of extremist and other liars (Christian zionist extremists), McCain has stood his ground. I have little respect for either party. But honesty and other leadership values are extremely important to me.

Notice when my tone towards MaggieL because most acidic. She was lying and she obviously knew she was lying about Israeli warplanes. She was not even honest to herself.

Would I vote for someone like Rumsfeld or Rice? Based upon simplest requirements for leadership - ability to grasp problems, desire to do a job, etc. Then yes. But Rumsfeld is so attached to a political agenda as to not even listen when he is proven wrong - ie Iraq. And Rice somehow supported erroneous political agenda rather than do her job as National Security Advisor. Her tenure at NSA demonstrates lack of integrity - a political agenda and blind loyalty is more important than the purpose of her job.

Two examples of how a presidential candidate loses my support quickly. How two people with potential for great leadership abilities so undermine their own credibility.

Whatsamatter, nobody fighting with you lately? Need to pick a new fiight?