So those "things" are ignorant?

See, I'm getting this feeling like you really didn't know exactly what the word meant, but you've heard it misused so many times that it kind of becomes this sort of de-facto derogatory adjective. "Don't be so ignorant!" when someone makes a tasteless joke. Which, of course, is really not in line with the meaning of the word.

There are certainly better words to describe both the seemingly arbitrary restrictions on diet, clothing & grooming and the people that place faith in them. I question the use of the word "ignorant" because surely someone as intelligent as you claim to be would never use it in such a manner. Now, to explain your usage, you have seemingly wrapped a reason around your usage and not the other way around. In other words, it seems to me as though you fabricated your justification for usage of the word because I called you on it and you realized that "ignorant" doesn't really mean what you think it means.

The reason I find this particularly ironic is because it seems as though you misused a word that itself would be used to describe someone who didn't know what they were talking about.

Of course, that's just what <b>I'm</b> getting from you.

Dave:

There's no irony and no misuse of the word. I'm well aware of the proper definition and usage of the word. Nice try though.

Not that I need to justify myself to you, but the word ignorant is used to describe those with little or no education on a topic. That doesn't mean they're incapable of learning, just that they don't have relevant information about the subject in question.

I consider anyone who thinks dietary restrictions are vitally important in their final judgment to be ignorant about the nature of a supreme creator of the universe and the motives of such a being. Clearly an all knowing, all powerful, omnipresent being would care about how well we treated each other and not about what we ate.

I think you were just making a feeble attempt to discredit me by claiming I didn't know the proper usage of the word and you've failed miserably. Better luck next time.

No, I think you're incorrect. Dave pointed out that you were name-calling a group of people simply because you do not agree with some of their practices. There are several religious leaders with extensive education on the topics you're discussing who still find them to be important.

While I agree that many of these practices are not as applicable to modern day life, I think many people hold onto them out of a sense of tradition and deference to their ancestors. That doesn't make them ignorant by any sense of the word.

What this really comes down to is acceptance of other people's practices. Dismissing them as ignorant does not show acceptance.

Folks of the Cellar:

Beginning January 1, 2003, I will begin charging each of you every time you reply to one of my posts. This should root out who is worthy of my attention. Kindly forward your billing information and a major credit card (MC/VISA/AMEX accepted) to me via PM.

Thank you.

Wow...it must be nice to know with such certainty what an omnicient, omnipotent and omnipresent being would do. *Some* folks would call a claim to that knowlege delusional (or blasphemous, depending on their own belief system). But not me.

That would be WWOOOBD, right? :-)

All they may be ignorant about is YOUR understanding of the nature of a supreme creator of the universe and motives of such a being.

Religion is belief, which is effectively a special, often impereable to change, OPINION about the world, how it works, and what meaning is assigned to it and to the individual participants in it.

I'd be wary of issuing a proclamation to all the peoples of the world on the right and wrong way to worship until you've walked a mile in everybody else's mocassins ...

You get a very different sense of a religion from the inside, vs. even a very critical look from the outside.

I can read Torah, Talmud, Kaballah ... and I will never have a full understanding of what it truly means to be an observant, or particularly, an Orthodox Jew. Ditto for any understanding I may gain of Islam by reading the Koran. However, despite my "lapsing" I do have an understanding of what it means to be Catholic.

I'm not being a cheerleader for religion here. I'm quite the happy heathen, as it happens. Just because you think some practice is silly or outdated or nonutilitarian, does not invalidate it.

I'm just suggesting that just maybe you come up a few answers short of omniscience yourself, is all.

**Oh shit, where'd that soapbox come from, and how did i end up standing on it??**

will you be accepting paypal?

~james

It is. And you used it to describe <b>things</b>. I'll quote it back to you.

Now, how are "things like restrictions on diet, wardrobe, grooming, etc." "those with little or no education on a topic"?

Don't worry; I fully expect you to carry this until the very end, refusing to admit that you misused a word. There is an adjective we use to describe people with that characteristic; it is "immature".

*gasp!*

Dave, what the hell are you doing?!

You're going to wind up on the Ignore List!!!

Aaaaaahhhh!! *runs*

He can't put himself on his own ignore list, can he? :-)

I wasn't going to say anything, but now that syc picked up on it I better get my reply in while the rates are still low. After 1/1 I won't be able to afford it. :-)

Hmmm...

"You know, I just can't stand myself, so I'm gonna just ignore myself for a while."

Actually, now that I think about it, Radar's ignore list should be the "in" thing. You know, all the cool people are going to be on the ignore list. If you're not being ignored, you're not cool. :)

Perhaps we can set up a bulk rate for replies...you know, you pay for 100, you get a discount. ;)

Funny that you mentioned paypal James...I just set up my account fully last week. I'm going to start taking donations for the Sycamore General Wellness Fund soon. :)

Hey, maybe that's why we haven't heard been hearing as much from Radar lately...he's put everyone on the ignore list!

And Sycamore, can I pre-pay in bulk?

I'm telling you hermit...we are now officially "big ballers" as rappers might say. Maybe we can create a secret handshake next.

And yes, I will sell pre-paid bulk packages.

Let me know when I owe too much so I can declare bankruptcy. Then you too can wade through reams of bankruptcy court filings.

is it okay if i just pretend i paid, and when you ask me why you havent received my payment, i can just say that it must be a problem with paypal? :)

~james