But what would be the point of a sign that no one could see?

"the bible" is a load of horse shit.

I'm not sure I understand your intent. I've read quite a bit of it and can represent that it is far from a load of horse manure.

There's a lot of substance in the Bible even for those who do not consider themselves Christian, Jew or Muslim.

Ahh I just finished reading "misquoting jesus" by bart ehrman and listening to about twelve hours of lectures on the origins of christianity.

There have been so many mistakes, falsifications, plagiarisms, misattributions, political jockeying involved in what we now have as the KJV that to think there is an iota of veracity requires a great suspension of logic.

What the council of Nicaea perpetrated alone is enough to make me seriously question what was included in the bible.

So by horseshit I mean in terms of its being anything more than a collection of often conflicting moral aphorsims, parables, and rhetoric designed to dis-empower the believer.

Those are legitimate concerns.

Exactly why we should be seeing other people...
;)

There would be no point to a sign that nobody could see.

And the point of a sign that can be seen is for it to be seen by those who can see it.

how many signs must a seeing man see,
Before he walks in the sea?

And to that end, empower and enrich the church. One only look back on the history of the role of The Church in power and control over people of past to see the same situation in todays society. The Good Book was written by man and passed off as written by some fantasy fairtail alien in the sky. Fear and Loathing in modern religious teachings...

This isn't really part of the topic but I feel like commenting on it anyways.

This is my main beef against the more liberal versions of Christianity. What is the point of religion if you don't have to work for it. Where in The Bible does it say that as long as I believe in Jesus I will go to heaven or is this just a way for Christians to justify themselves?

This way of thinking is just like having a teacher that at the end of the semester hands out a piece of paper with one question, "Do you think I was a good teacher?" All the kids that answered "yes" would get an A in the class no matter how good or bad they did while the kid who worked his or her ass off to get a 100% would fail because he answered "no".

Its in the new testament.

Throughout his life Jesus preached the importance of service to one's fellow man. The "it doesn't matter what you do" idea is a slight misrepresentation of what Jesus taught since it fails to acknowledge the requirements he set forth for those who would follow. He was making the point that one could not "earn" their way into heaven with good works but also made the point that good works were at most a requirement and at least strongly encouraged and expected.

While modern Christianity is rife with decay and self-serving distortion - I'm a former Catholic and have chosen not to raise my children Catholic - too many problems, issues, unanswered questions, etc. - the direct teachings of Jesus - as best we know them from the effects of revisionist history - are quite complete and, as far as I can tell, lacking any instance of internal contradiction or internal inconsistency. This cannot be said of formalized Christianity which doesn't really come as a big surprise.

Muahahaha I love that link!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...hurchsign3.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...hurchsign1.jpg

Oh, oops. I'll go over there.

I have heard many other Christians say that it is very hard to get into heaven and you do have to earn it.