Team America is just a dick. Get over it, or not.

Either Saddam was bluffing or there was a complicated bluff of Saddam by his own guys. If a dude is whacking people like Tony Soprano, you might just tell him what he wants to know, rather than the truth.

If you're Saddam's top nuke guy, you might not even tell anyone that the program is a fake -- and so they may all believe it's real, and all that belief may be picked up by intelligence. You may even have a payroll of guys whose job it is to carry test tubes from point A to point B.

don't be ridiculous. GWB knew it was all a bluff, he just didn't want us to know that he knew what they didn't know which was that it was all a bluff.

He knew that he knew? Or did he know that he knew it was a bluff? Or did he think he knew that he knew that his guy thought that HE knew so that he made him think he knew so he wouldn't get killed?

he knew. ya know?

:rollanim:

From what I've heard, the whole intel community believed that their intel on WMDs was accurate - that there were WMDs in iraq.
I'm thinking UT's hypothesis is more or less the way it worked. Whether the higher-ups knew the truth (that there were none) or not, the grunts drank the administration kool-aid, and our intel found plenty of information indicating the existance of WMDs. This worked out well until, uh, we went in and found nothing. I'll bet a bunch of them are as surprised as anybody else.

It's got to be tough to be the pres.....I can see it now.

"Do they have the shit?" "Hell yea, they got the shit." "Are you sure they got the shit, cause I'm gonna start some shit." "fuck yea, we're sure. They got the shit."

3 years later.....

...inside a thought bubble. " Dammit! I'm in deep shit."

All in all, I'm glad it wasn't me making that call.

So Ibram, it was ok to go in there because we knew there were WMD's, right?

No, it was o.k. because we are Dicks. Saddam was an ass hole. Dicks fuck ass holes. That's just how it works.

(if you can't tell, I"m in a fairly flippant and sarcastic mood today.

In my opinion, you earned it. Oh and thats not what my d*ck f*cks. just to be clear thats NOT how it works over here. just my personal preference.

It would be wrong even if he DID have them.

But it was wronger after the UN weapons inspectors didnt find anything.

I thought thats how you felt, but wanted to recheck.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/spr....02/index.html

Now unfortunately that is from Colin Powell's presentation to the UN a month before the war, and much of the other things Powell presented were discredited. Still, it wasn't him talking on that conversation.

Same debate for five years, but this still bugs me. "Evacuated everything" November 2002.

But you know, it really doesn't matter if he had them or not. If a guy holds you up in the street and says he has a gun in his jacket, it doesn't matter if it's a gun or if it's only his finger. The threat is the part that matters; you don't play odds with your life.

And on the world stage, the rule is, when you get those weapons you have to be very strict and careful about the statements you make about them. And here is where Israel is the ideal: they have nukes, but didn't even *admit* it, for decades, much less brandish them about with threats of destruction. That is how you must behave; you don't get to both threaten to have nukes, and also sponsor public events where you encourage the crowds to ritualistically chant "Death to America", or death to anyone, for that matter.

Though you do have to consider that Iraq and Iran have to show a front while Israel didn't. If Iraq and Iran were making nuclear weapons for defensive purpose, which was a good possibility, it would make sense that they would announce it.

If you get nuclear weapons to reassure that you will not be invaded, what is the point of not talking about those weapons? It is much like the situation with Russia in Dr. Strangelove if you've seen that.

If you are getting nuclear weapons just to have them or because you want to defend yourself but you don't need a front, then I will agree with you.


To further the point with your example. Why would he put his finger inside his jacket? To get attention? Maybe. But if it was because he felt threatened and was scared of being attacked (mugged) and put his finger in his jacket pretending it was a gun yelling "hey, don't fuck with me, I've got a gun", it is a little different scenario.