Not to mention he thinks he is always right and if you disagree with his position you should be deported. As HLJ stated, oh the irony..:rolleyes:

I got my first Cellar ass-kickin' arguing inalienable rights, iirc.

;)

Aliens should have the same rights as anyone else. Only, I don't like the way things started out in MARS ATTACKS! Not very friendly, if you ask me.

:alien: :alien2: :gray:

Join me in stopping alien autopsies!

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f8...an/autopsy.jpg

Meanwhile, Proposition 8 is about organized religion doing politics. They are supposed to have tax exemption because they have no political voice. Mormon Church can now be prosecuted? Or just taxed?

They can make signs and stomp around and whine, but California voters are the ones who made the final decision at the polls, not the Mormon Church.

Right on Bullitt

This is NOT about religion. Its about organized groups expressing their opinions. Taxes/prosecution have nothing to do with it either. IT could have just as easily been the NRA, the KKK, a union or whatever. Its all the same. Just because you dislike a group or their stance doesn't matter.

Hmmm...even if it's ACORN? :eyebrow:

That's where it gets complicated. People can have their opinions fine and dandy, but when you take intentional action to screw with the system to meet your own ends then you are really in the wrong.
Advertise all you want, but do not screw with the system.

That said, I'm not a fan of the Mormon church, esp. after taking my American religious history seminar, but the members are entitled to their opinions and can donate to support campaigning out of their own pockets if they so choose. They may be trying to persuade people one way or the other, but again it is the VOTER who casts the vote and participates in the actual decision. We have the power of choice and a majority of the people made their choice.

Good one Shawnee!

The Mormon church spent $20 million to campaign for Prop 8, and many church leaders from Utah traveled to California to help and many other members phoned from Utah.

THEY made this about religion. About a religious group sticking its nose into another groups right.

@ Bullitt: Aside from the fact that it was a few individuals in that organization who were screwing around, I'll agree with you there. However, I'm sure there is a Morman or two out there with some pretty questionable devices as well.

So, aside from the bad apples, you can't be on the fence on this one. I don't think you are, Bullitt, I was referring to the ACORN discussion prior to the election, where I might have had the impression that there was actual "line-drawing" on the part of c-man regarding the role of organized groups. IIRC, it was a no-no, then. No to recruiting voters for your cause. Unless you're part of a more radical group?

Waffles.

Oh without a doubt, there are manipulative people within any group who will go to extreme measures to get their way. I don't recall what exactly was said by everyone in the pre-election ACORN discussion, and I don't really feel like digging because i have ten
minutes till my next class :D

BUT, I am not on the fence on this issue in any way. I believe in individual and collective rights to express/advertise their opinions in whatever way they see fit so long as it does not break the law or infringe on the rights of others. What I have a problem with is people who seek to twist the balance of a democratic decision through direct action. Whether that be hacking voting machines or casting votes for the deceased. Whether it is a group or an individual who does this, the intention is the same to me and should be punished because it undermines the whole process: a collective decision made by the individual decisions of individual voters.

I made zero statement on the California decision. A more serious problem now exists. Religion imposed on all other people.

This month, the Catholic Church will conduct a meeting to determine how American doctors can define death. More religion that must be imposed on all Americans. The Catholic Church, like the Mormon Church, has decided that it must impose church doctrine on American laws. It has ordered all Catholic lawmakers to impose church doctrine in American laws. Shamefully, many Americans remained silent when both the Mormons and Catholics would pervert American laws with their religion.

Nothing was posted about whether Californians decided rightly or wrongly. Bullitt misrepresented what I posted. Question is whether the Mormon church should be prosecuted OR heavily taxed. By American religious standards, the Mormons did evil. Should they be burned at the stake - because those are laws also advocated by religion?

A church that advocates peace and lives in peace also remains silent about American laws. A church is only a conduit between a man and his god - not a political action group.

Bullitt pretty much covered it for me. Have an opinion - whatever opinion, just don't fuck with or try to cheat.