Do you mean to say that you think parents have more than one responsibility to their children???

What a thoughts!

I mean to say that as I read the thread, I came across xoB's post and I applauded it. Later, I read mercy's post, and I applaud that one too. Both men express the same idea, that the highest duty a parent owes his children is to prepare them well to live independently, a belief I share. Because I had posted my enthusiastic agreement to xoB's post before I'd read mercy's post, I felt it, too, deserved to be acknowledged.

It is most important to raise them well, happiness is *relatively* incidental.

A happy child that becomes a happy adult is probably more likely to survive and be a contributing member of society. Should they just taught to be mindless zombies who do their work without any complaints? Thats what I'm getting from Merc, XO, and V...

Adults who are parents have a right to pursue a happy fulfilled life and have an obligation to. If you give up on your dreams/happiness, what kind of example does that set for your child? If you think you can hide your unhappiness, most likely not.

Look around you... there are millions of parents that did their best to make themselves and their children happy. When the economy tanked and the bill came due, their losing their house, car, future, etc.

Do you think they taught their children well?

Who's the better parent, the one who is getting verbal daggers for not letting their kid do what makes them happy, or the parent putting out an Amber Alert?

being self sufficient, by my definition, is a prerequisite to happiness. If your goal is for your kids to grow up to be healthy, happy adults.....one must assume the basics like those bruce and merc mention. aim high!

That was not my intent. A happy child is good. We should strive to make those that we love the most to be happy... when we can. But there are limits. And those limits include duties that we have as parents to mold children into functioning adults as freestanding members of society. And I do not believe that you can be a sucessful parent if everything you do is guided by trying to keep your children happy. You are not there to be their best friends. As I said before, if you get that in the end good on you. But it should never guide how you parent. Anyone who has been a parent knows this.

ditto.

I think we're arguing about the definition of happy. To me, a happy kid and a spoiled kid are two very different things.

I agree glatt, and I'll add that of course we all know that a new toy or whatever will bring momentary happiness based on a reaction to someone else's input ie the parent giving the child a gift. We all know that true happiness, that sense of contentment and faith in oneself is something else entirely, and is in my opinion as a parent, one of the big challenges of raising kids. Helping them understand that their happiness comes from themselves, not from what others do for them. Receiving a gift sort of happiness is more akin to gratitude and appreciation, which are also good traits in any adult and must be learned as a child.

And V, my intention with my previous post was to point out that there's more than one requirement in being a parent. That to bring up your kids well you need to consider both points Merc and Bruce made, just as you said. I was agreeing with your perspective.