Isn't this just a microcosm of american culture in the internet age? We can get the news that agrees with our held opinions, so actual research or honest inquiry tends to get short-circuited into some more superficial emotional satisfaction. And anyone can find a semi-credible source to back up just about anything, so all things boil down to a mixture of personal values (what do you think is most important, and what's the best way to get there?) and some debate of whose sources are more credible (which any honest look at requires you to first admit that your sources are not necessarily credible, which takes a fairly serious amount of chutzpah.)

I guess my point is that what we're seeing in Politics here is kind of what we're seeing in culture nation-wide, and, apparently, the light at the end of the tunnel is starting to grow -- there's talk of the coming "left-right populist revolution" or something to that effect.

So if it is just a microcosm, it's only fair to see it play out: indeed, to try to accelerate it, to find a solution to it here. Because what is the cellar if not sort of a weird petri-dish-kind-of-thing that we can poke and prod, and sometimes get poked and prodded by?

This thread has got political ... yet insightful. Reasonable even. Cept that bit about Chuck Norris.

I'm thinking that right now we have a cluster of folks who cannot be talked to. They are better off left alone. After some period of zero participation thoughtful people can work their way back in. For now I'll focus on goats and goat-based products.

The politics thread is as subject to fashions and fads as any of the others. It'll swing back again.


I don't really look at it as 'going into the politics forum'. half the time i don't even notice which forum a thread is in; it's just all in the New Posts category. I do know there are some threads which, though I occasionally skim through to see what they're up to, have become more or less unreadable. But there are usually some interesting little sections of the discussion in amongst the tedium and destruction.

I think LJ was disappointed to find out that Chuck Norris is a vocal Christian.

I don't avoid political threads; but there are certain dwellars and/or subjects I tend to avoid engaging with at a political, or at a serious level. From time to time I forget I'm avoiding them and get drawn in by my own curiosity. But...at that point I'm often just throwing in the odd double entendre.

I don't really have much of a heart for political discussions here, of late. There's only so much searing anger I can handle at any one time. And the landscape is strewn with boobytraps and populated by wolves, ready to ascend on the unwary who has dared to write their post whilst sitting at the computer, in their pants, eating cereal; thereby falling short of the astounding peer-review quality, properly and exhaustively researched, fully spellchecked political argument we apparently see as a minimum standard.

If I sit round a pub table talking politics with mates, we're not correcting each other's grammar; or demanding we present our findings fully supported and properly referenced. But this seems to characterise much of the political discussion here at the moment. Some of it is justified, some of it is funny, but some of it is petty and not much fun to watch, or get involved in. It's like there's some hidden rule which states that, the second a topic becomes political, people start sharpening their weapons.

It's like, in the big online games, there's often a separate arena area where players can take their avatars and beat the shit out of each other with gay abandon. Normal game rules are suspended. The politics forum seems to have morphed into a free for all arena. Which occasionally then spills into the rest of the forums. Some of the stuff people say to each other once a thread has become political in nature, just bypasses anything approaching civility.

Appreciate all through history, you post demonstrates why extremists are so successful. By making things nasty, those who learn from intelligent thought zone out. And those inspired mostly by the hype of the attack are empowered.

Limbaugh taking constant cheap shots at Hilary only inspired his disciples. Others zoned out leaving the field dominated by those disciples. And made so many others emotionally dislike Hilary. How to above the nastiness? Avoid Hilary. Emotionally associate Hilary with the nastiness. Cheap shots and insults (unfortunately) tend to get many or most to believe the attacker.

For example, why did Saddam have WMDs? Because cheap shots, lies, and emotional diatribes *proved* he was evil. Fact that Saddam was desperately trying to restore his “American ally” standing somehow got completely buried in hype, hate, and overt lies. Therefore Saddam must have attacked the WTC. Even when numbers said Saddam’s WMDs should not exist, still, 70% believed the myth anyway. Because hype and hate combined with overt lies work when others (ie you) do not challenge that 'hate agenda' with rational thought and damning questions.

Why did the KKK have so much sympathy in the old South? Hate, emotion, and popular myths were enough, even among otherwise intelligent people, to sympathize with the KKK.

A perfect example of how easy emotions can inspire lies: surge protectors. Did you assume that protector on your computer power cord does any protection? Why? Or did you ask those damning questions? Did you ask for ‘whys’? No facts say so. No numbers say so. Well proven science says otherwise. And yet an overwhelming majority will buy that protector only because they were told what to believe. Entertained their emotions rather than think logically. Blindly empower liars by simply not learning the difference between emotional hype and logical thought.

Emotion can easily subvert logical thought – especially when one does not always demand/learn fundamental facts. Especially when feeling rather than analyze numbers. Especially when one does not ask and demand answers to damning questions. Especially when conclusions are in black and white rather than based in perspectives.

so, what are you trying to say?

not disappointed that he is Christian.... That's assumed in the US. Disappointed that he seems rather zealous about his Religion. That's one of my turn offs.

Yes. I know.

It doesn't seem as big a deal to me. He hasn't tried to twist my arm yet, so I'm happy he's got something to be passionate about. :D

Not gonna read on the politics forum, in no particular order:
tw, radar, merc, ug, redux & classic.

Now, if I could only get an 'ignore' feature that was politics-specific, all would be fine.

Isn't that like...most all that post there?

I make a point of ignoring everything lumberjim posts in the politics forum.

Except for me, font of wisdom that Iam. :eek:

And he wears a toupee. :right: