Ah, didn't know that. My bad.

My bad for not writing or finding a half decent upload library and instead just writing a few lines and hoping for the best.

Hey, it was up for six days so if they missed it, you snooze you lose. :lol2:

Germany reaps what it sows. A sneak preview of what may happen if we import "refugees" here.

It has been said that these people are not true refugees but an invading army. We would be bringing in their civil war and giving it a nice home. I counsel against admitting any of them. Let Muslims take care of their own. Although Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon have taken in many, Saudi Arabia, the richest country over there, has taken in zero.

Europe is third world? Trump's son-in-law knows better than that.

So because Saudi hasn't stepped up, we should just let those people rot? Well hell, they pray the wrong way right?

It isn't the way they pray, it's the way they lived, the way they think, the culture they're brought up in, that seems to cause so much friction with Europeans. Needing a catch-all label for slogans and signs, White, Black, Hispanic or Asian, don't work. Actually the refugees cover all those bases, and some are Christian, and maybe a few Flying Spaghetti Monsterites, But Muslim is what the majority have in common, so that's the handle.

My heart says help them out, save them from the animals who have seized power. But my head fears a lot of clashes, and a deterioration of Europe living standards from the huge drag on the economy. Hope I'm wrong, but the past has proven troublesome.

I guarantee they won't harm our living conditions as much as the bankers did.

Looking at the big picture, I'd agree in a heatbeat, however that damage was spread pretty uniformly like an evil rain. Most suffered without a specific target to blame, so they cast aspersions on the bankers as a group. I'm sure not every banker was evil, even less feel they were doing evil. 'I was just following orders', or 'following bank procedure', most would say. There's some truth to that, it's the institution, and the officers controlling it, who are at fault. Those few would say, 'I did what I had to do to compete', or 'it's my sworn duty to make as much money as possible for my employer, the board of directors". The board would pass the blame to the stock brokerage houses who threaten downgrading the bank's future(value).

So when you say "bankers", which includes many people who are not at fault for the damage done, it's shorthand for the aggregate banking industry. It's the same way with the use of Muslim to cover a large group, many of whom don't fit the description, and/or are not at fault.

The damage from refugees I worry about, is more personal. One on one clashes between neighbors who have different backgrounds and values. Some of these clashes might be caused when people are annoyed by what their neighbors feel is normal behavior. It can be as stupid as your kitchen exhaust fan blowing bacon fumes at the praying neighbors. It can also be much more serious, but friction builds heat which can become flames.

The culture differences causing friction is why during the great migrations to the US a hundred years ago, the Jews sought out Jews to live with. The Scandinavians did the same, as did the Irish, Italians, etc, to live with people from a culture they understood, felt comfortable with. But it also created suspicions/fears in each group, about all the other groups, and it's taken a long time, several generations, to assuage most of those fears.

I'm worried that dropping these refugees into existing neighborhoods will cause friction, and putting them in enclaves apart will cause suspicion/fear of the unknown. Add bigoted troublemakers on both sides, and the standard of living goes down for everyone. Your standard of living plummets when you're afraid to walk your dog at night. Of course the person to blame, right or wrong, is just a stones throw away.

I agree with much of that. But - I don;t think the two are comparable really in terms of generalisations. Banking is a specific industry in which certain practices were allowed to become commonplace - whilst not every banker was at fault, it is not unreasonable to hold the industry responsible for what goes on within it - partly because it is, in fact within the power of that industry to alter how it conducts itself as a general rule. Islam is a gigantic swathe of humanity, available in many flavours, most of which hate all the other flavours, with many different national and regional identities shaping yet more variations.

I see what you mean about not blaming all bankers - and I am sure there are many people who work in banking who are ethical - but they are an industry and therefore far more controllable, identifiable and culpable than the press of a fleeing populace. And in terms of relative harm and impact on living standards - we are a generation, at the keen edge of minimum, away from true recovery in terms of living standards and wages versus the cost of living.

OK, then we're pretty much in agreement. I wanted to point out, while using the term "Muslim" as a catch all for anyone from the middle east, except the Israelis, may not be right, or fair, it is reality. Haters did it, pundits did it, even some media did it, so people without an axe to grind heard it so much they accepted it as a term people know the meaning of, and don't stop to think the meaning may be completely different to the one hearing it. To many Americans, Muslim conjures up visions of ayatollah Khomeini & 9-11. To others it's a peaceful religion. Probably most of us are in between.

You guys need to ease up on the reasonableness. This is no way to start a flame war.

You're quite right. I can only apologise, to the internet, for allowing standards to slip.

Shut the hell up. Is that better?

:morncoff: I'm feeling sick-minded this morning....

Flash floods in Utah kill 8
Jokiah Smith was interviewed at the canyon refugee camp this morning:

Sorry. I won't do that again.