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Originally Posted by Griff
(Post 1006137)
Honestly, I'm way more concerned about Iran than NK.
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The Iran problem is solved if Trump and the extremists do not screw it up.
The North Korean problem was solved long ago by Jimmy Carter - until American extremists screwed it up. And then George Jr used diplomacy (his axis of evil speech) to subvert that entire solution.
An Iran situation was also being solved. Iran was actually working as an American friend to attack and conquer the Taliban. That solution was also destroyed by the "Axis of Evil" speech - given by a most evil one.
From PBS Fronline:
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In November, Secretary of State Colin Powell shook hands with the Iranian foreign minister, Kamal Kharrazi, at the U.N. headquarters in New York City -- a simple yet historic gesture that seemed the most tantalizing hint of rapprochement between the U.S. and Iran since the Islamic revolution and the hostage crisis in 1979.
But on Jan. 29, 2002, in his State of the Union address, President George W. Bush branded Iran and its "terrorist allies" as part of "an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world." And on Jan. 31, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice summed up the administration's position on Iran. "Iran's direct support of regional and global terrorism," she said, "and its aggressive efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction, belie any good intentions it displayed in the days after the world's worst terrorist attacks in history."
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How dumb were we (because of George Jr and people who elected him)? The Iranian situation was solved multiple times. Then wackos screwed it up. Bolton (a lover of Nazi style torture) was one who openly wanted us to invade Iran and North Korea. Which is why Trump likes him. And apparently will screw everything up but again. When will he give his axis of evil speech?
Always learn from history. Extremists even in the Cellar will deny all this because it contradicts what their propaganda sources have ordered them to believe. And because they use emotions rather than facts from history to know otherwise.
Dexter Filkins details what has long been known in the New Yorker on 30 Sept 2013. Yes, this reality has been known for that long.
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In the chaotic days after the attacks of September 11th, Ryan Crocker ... flew discreetly to Geneva to meet a group of Iranian diplomats. “I’d fly out on a Friday and then back on Sunday, so nobody in the office knew where I’d been,” Crocker told me. “We’d stay up all night in those meetings.” It seemed clear to Crocker that the Iranians were answering to Suleimani, whom they referred to as “Haji Qassem,” and that they were eager to help the United States destroy their mutual enemy, the Taliban. Although the United States and Iran broke off diplomatic relations in 1980, after American diplomats in Tehran were taken hostage, Crocker wasn’t surprised to find that Suleimani was flexible. “You don’t live through eight years of brutal war without being pretty pragmatic,” he said. Sometimes Suleimani passed messages to Crocker, but he avoided putting anything in writing. “Haji Qassem’s way too smart for that,” Crocker said. “He’s not going to leave paper trails for the Americans.”
Before the bombing began, Crocker sensed that the Iranians were growing impatient with the Bush Administration, thinking that it was taking too long to attack the Taliban. At a meeting in early October, 2001, the lead Iranian negotiator stood up and slammed a sheaf of papers on the table. “If you guys don’t stop building these fairy-tale governments in the sky, and actually start doing some shooting on the ground, none of this is ever going to happen!” he shouted. “When you’re ready to talk about serious fighting, you know where to find me.” He stomped out of the room. “It was a great moment,” Crocker said.
The cooperation between the two countries lasted through the initial phase of the war. At one point, the lead negotiator handed Crocker a map detailing the disposition of Taliban forces. “Here’s our advice: hit them here first, and then hit them over here. And here’s the logic.” Stunned, Crocker asked, “Can I take notes?” The negotiator replied, “You can keep the map.” The flow of information went both ways. On one occasion, Crocker said, he gave his counterparts the location of an Al Qaeda facilitator living in the eastern city of Mashhad. The Iranians detained him and brought him to Afghanistan’s new leaders, who, Crocker believes, turned him over to the U.S. The negotiator told Crocker, “Haji Qassem is very pleased with our coöperation.”
The good will didn’t last. In January, 2002, Crocker, who was by then the deputy chief of the American Embassy in Kabul, was awakened one night by aides, who told him that President George W. Bush, in his State of the Union Address, had named Iran as part of an “Axis of Evil.” Like many senior diplomats, Crocker was caught off guard. He saw the negotiator the next day at the U.N. compound in Kabul, and he was furious. “You completely damaged me,” Crocker recalled him saying. “Suleimani is in a tearing rage. He feels compromised.” The negotiator told Crocker that, at great political risk, Suleimani had been contemplating a complete reëvaluation of the United States, saying, “Maybe it’s time to rethink our relationship with the Americans.” The Axis of Evil speech brought the meetings to an end. Reformers inside the government, who had advocated a rapprochement with the United States, were put on the defensive. Recalling that time, Crocker shook his head. “We were just that close,” he said. “One word in one speech changed history.”
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Could the George Jr wackos have done any more to screw it up? Notice how The Donald is replacing educated people with many of the same wackos. In part, because Fox News tells him what to think. (The Donald does not read books.) How many educated people were fired or quit just this week?
Every responsible person in the Cellar should know this internationally known story. Suleimani remains a legendary leader of the Quds and is probably now a if not the most powerful person in the Middle East. He could have very easily become an America friend if not for a wacko extremist (dumb, uneducated) George Jr administration.
(How many forget that Ho Chi Minh five times ask for Vietnam to become a protectorate of the US. Same wackos wasted 50,000 American lives uselessly there. How many Nam Vets are appropriately angry about that. Learn from history.)
Same wackos destroyed an entire North Korea solution that was made at great risk and courage by North Korea's Fatty Two (Kim).
Wars are averted by international diplomacy followed by trade. A president so dumb is doing everything to destroy both all over the world to make America a first, a second class power. He wants war. He is so dumb (educated only by a propaganda machine called Fox News) that he does not even realize he only wants war.
The North Korean problem had been solved until wacko extremists destroyed it. The Iranian problem was solved twice. And again, wackos are doing everything they can to destroy it.
Meanwhile Putin is successfully playing chess with Trump at the expense of America. Where did North Korea get all those rockets and nuclear technology? Where is the Taliban suddenly getting so many weapons?
Which theater is a greater danger? Easily debated. But both dangers exist only because so many Americans vote for people who don't even read books, have low intelligence, ignore history, and are driven only by their political extremist agenda inspired by a big dic mentality. IOW they are not moderates so they are anti-Americans. We are expected to suffer even in our schools, infrastructure, influence, an already decreasing number of friends, economic power, military power, and, well we are raising generations of militaristic inspired youth who have no idea what once made America great. A military and wars did not do that. Diplomacy and free trade do.
Which is a greatest threat? Iran? North Korea? Actually it is Trump and the people who tell him what to think (Limbaugh, Alex Jones, Bolton, Fox News, and the wackos who voted for him).
