How does that compare to the rise in income?

I think that that is going to depend on your perspective. The rich got richer and the poor got richer, but not at the same rate.

So you read an article about one companies profits and assumed it is everywhere? Over the past 15 years, the oil industry underperformed. And currently, many in the oil industry are not making large profits. The large profits are mostly by a few well located businesses - not a function of the entire industry. And that industry is simply averaging out after a previous decade of unspectaculor profits.

You read about that part also? Or did your just assume that spectaculor profits by Exxon meant all are that profitable?

These are the good time. It does not get better than this. We are due for another 1970s or another 1989. Can you withstand a downturn?

It does not get any better than this. If life is tough now, then one must make plans now for when times actually become tough. If one is living on the edge now, then one is already in serious trouble. If trivial price of gasoline is so harmful, then one must reassess one's precarious situation.

TheMercenary demonstrates it. His boat holds 135 gallons. Will he stop using his boat? No. Price of gasoline has not increased significantly.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I have to ask, wasn't it better than this two weeks ago when prices were a little lower than they are now?

Two weeks ago, things were sunnier. Today we have some clouds. How bad has it become. I am thinking of people sunning on a beach when a cloud blocks the sun for 30 seconds. Then one says to her companion, "It was so much better yesterday".

Remember what I had been saying years ago. Gas prices were way to low causing stifled innovation. Since I always look at the bigger picture, then I consider those price increases to be a very good thing.

Did you notice how stifled innovations are suddenly become 'new breakthrough technologies'? These ideas existed. Why now are they suddenly 'new'?

Some examples - hybrid technology which is based on concepts used in 1930s locomotives. CFL bulbs which have long been possible - I remember an article about building the circuits in Popular Electronics. A now defunct magazine which implies how long ago that technology existed.

Energy prices were so low that a company notorious for stifling innovation was using SUVs to cover up their hateful management. GM executives get promoted by cutting costs - which means stifling innovation. SUVs only made such anti-Americans look good. SUVs only possible because energy had become the cheapest ever in mankind history. Way too ridiculously low as indicated by even the new BMW SUV with 500 horsepower.

For those whose eyes glaze over when numbers are provided - the new BMW SUV has as much horsepower as the larger engines in the larger 18 wheel trucks. Why? Energy prices are just too low.

A 30 second cloud. It was so much nicer yesterday.

BTW when was the last time I drove a car that got less than 30 MPG? It was a 1969 Ford. And yet I read here MPG numbers such as 22; and that is good? That is pathetic. I have never had a Honda Accord average less than 30 MPG. Even my 1970s GM Chevy got 30 MPG - which is how long minimally acceptable technology has existed and avoided - because energy prices are too low.

Well said, TW. When gas gets to $5/gallon, people will react - there is some movement already, but not enough. Most people and companies look only at simple economics (payback), and ignore long-term impacts of their decisions. I don't expect this to change, but the economics will change, and that will make all the difference.

Using perspective from the 1970s - no effort was made to innovate in American cars until gasoline prices rose to $7 per gallon in 2007 dollars. Shawnee123 - what will you do if that happens? That was late 1970s.

Oil industry analysts are asking why prices are spiking when nothing serious is ongoing. Review where the oil comes from. Even Nigeria may be on the verge of a country wide civil war. Iraq and Iran could be shutdown by military actions. Saudi Arabia could have more than half their export abilities impeded. Even Ethiopia may be drawn into regional wide war. Russia is slowly gripping their energy industry for one obvious reason. Russia must be prepared in case another cold war mentality starts. Did you notice how Europe - even Netherland and UK - are now dependent on Russian gas?

Last year, prices were high because so many providers had long term contracts. They had to hoard as much oil as possible with so many uncertainties and with long term contract requirements to fill. (And yes, many parts of the oil industry had to cover big losses as a result.)

Same situation applies this year except that more oil sources are now at risk. No, it does not look like $5 per gallon gasoline. But then it also did not look that way before it happened in the late 1970s. The fact that oil prices are rising early means prices will probably remain stable - not go to $7 per gallon of gas. Yes, an early rise of gas prices may actually be a good thing (for this year).

I am currently on a web seminar/conference call with the Union of Concerned Scientists regarding the IPCC Working Group III. The final Summary for Policy Makers was released today and they are discussing the options for reducing "greenhouse gases" in the environment.

Questions, so far, have covered everything from vehicle fuel economy standards to eating habits, which they seem to feel are two of the major factors contributing to greenhouse gases.

No one has mentioned human population yet, which I think is the most important factor.

I thought making cement/concrete was number two?

This discussion was really on the direct effects of the individual ("consumer" - though that's not a term that I like). The rankings will be different if looking at all major sources, including power generation and construction materials.

Oh OK, thanks.

You made the assumption that I was referring to a story specifically about Exxon, which I'm not. What I was referring to is what it feels like being hit over the head with the term "record profits", over and over since last year.
Is it coincidence that when they're making "record profits", we're paying high prices? Also, I'll admit your remarks about excessive lifestyles rubbed me the wrong way because it sounds like you're making assumptions and generalizations. Some people may live an excessive lifestyle, but plenty of them live in poverty and/or paycheck to paycheck and gas is just one more necessity that costs more (and more and more).

Let's review what happened to many oil companies during the year of Katrina. Many oil companies sign long term supply contracts. One who profited immensely from post-Katrina prices was Southwest Air. Many oil companies had to eat losses due to higher post-Katrina oil prices while Southwest profited significantly. Did you also see those industry losses?

Exxon, et al may have bought oil pre-Katrina. By the time oil arrived, prices were post-Katrina. So Exxon, et al reported record profits while you "suffered". Exxon did not gouge. That is how markets work and for good reason. Meanwhile, what was not reported? What Exxon, et al paid for post-Katrina oil. And then oil dropped $10 per barrel. Which oil industry companies lost money when that happened - or did your news sources forget to report that part of the story?

Again, if the oil industry is so profitable, then where are these major stockmarket price increases throughout that industry? They realized massive profits when oil went up and significant losses when oil went down.

Last year, prices were also high. Naysayers accused oil industry of price gouging. But oil industry had long term contracts that HAD to be fulfilled. Why were oil prices so high? Because the industry was buying and storing oil anywhere that storage could be found. When a hurricane season never happened, then all that stored oil was sold. At what prices? At prices far below what was paid. That fall, oil companies took significant losses because they had to hoard oil to protect their long term contract obligations. Did your news reports include that?

Why were those summer prices high? Oil industry had to do anything to have reserves should another shortage occur. The naive blamed greedy oil companies who, in reality, were only assuring oil would always be available. Prices properly sending messages to everyone as markets should. And those prices going up and down - insignificant.

Welcome to market forces that don't get reported. Welcome to the losses last fall that were not widely reported. Most of the oil industry did not reap the massive profits as speculated. Otherwise oil industry stocks would have massively outperformed the market.

So how big is this oil industry market? Last numbers I saw put Exxon at about 8% of the market. I don't see market gouging. I see volatile prices because prices typically would have to rise and fall $2 to $8 a gallon just to get people to respond according to supply variations.

Price change from 2.30 to $3.17? Insignificant. Expect such variations to be normal. Welcome to a world now made so unstable by George Jr.

Losses are deducted before the record profits are announced.

So those record profits from one quarter are withheld until losses are recorded six months later? That is what xoxoxoBruce is posting.

Profits/losses are reported quarterly, but they are also reported yearly, and for longer time spans. You have to consider what your hearing. Is that what tw is denying?

Annual profits from Exxon have been spectaculor. It's president makes no apologies while claiming that Exxon is a particularly well run company. For example, companies that operate refineries don't have very good annual profits.

So we have a few companies with massive annual profits. We have many others that only have good profits in some quarters. And then when we sum together all profits over the decades, the oil industry has only been typical of other American industries.

Exxon’s spectacular profits. Other companies with suddenly profitable quarters. Does that mean all oil companies are gouging America? No. That means perspective has been distorted by only hearing the headlines rather than look at the entire industry – that is no where near that rich.

I agree that the sensational headlines are misleading. That's the nature of the media now. I also feel the public should take a jaundice eye at the headlines, and realizing how the media works, dig a little deeper before condemning (or praising) any person or organization.

Returning to the question of higher gasoline prices. Why? There is no Katrina, etc to justify it?

I believe these oil traders have learned lessons from 2005 Katrina and from last year. They had to stock up in order to meet long term contracts. They did so too late last year. Therefore they had to sell oil off at a loss in the fall. I suspect oil traders were simply buying earlier so as to not be hurt by higher summer prices. IOW that price rise may actually be a good thing - industry preparing for a possible summer oil crisis. This is speculation based upon recent events and comments made by industry insiders. Appreciate the market. Even those participating in trading that is running up prices cannot be sure why prices are rising - because the market is that large.

Prices are not something to be controlled. Prices are the one real messaging system we have when a market is so big.

If they had to sell off at a loss in the fall why were home heating oil prices so high and suppliers blaming shortages?
Don't you think the spot traders running prices up on speculation makes the market unstable even though they are playing with a very small part of the market? The spot market jumps, the media screams, the public freaks because they don't understand the spot market, then the oil companies take advantage of the public's expectations of a jump in price by providing it.

Just don't buy gas on the 15th. Problem fixed. Ya right. I can't belive the dumb SOBs that foward that crap. :tinfoil:

The cheapest was $2.91 yesterday morning, almost filled up, but was only at 1/2 tank.

Dumb move.

All stations were at 3.09/3.19/3.29 on the way home last night... Grrrrrrrrr.

Well that "dumb move" cost you what? A dollar? Is a buck worth making an extra gas stop?

Regular this morning at the two stations I drive by $3.39 - $ 3.59 / gal.

Picked up a carpool partner this week. Theoretically, my commuting fuel expenses should drop to half the recent levels, no? Let's hope so.

I drove out of town on Saturday. Prices in the foothills of the Shenandoahs were 20 cents cheaper than in town. I had always heard that the blends of gasolines used in cities were more expensive for pollution control, but it was shocking to see gas for $2.79

if you live near any Native American reservation, you can often get gas cheaper there because they don't have to pay certain taxes

It's not entirely the blends, but what the traffic will bear, in the cities and 'burbs as opposed to rural areas.

They're fluxing pretty hard here right now. Some stores were at $3.149 yesterday, others at $2.969.

I spent $86 for gas last week...blecch!

Just got it for 3.09 POINT 9 (they think we don't get that it's really 3.10)

Put in 20 dollars for about a half tank. I can't translate that into 40 bucks a tank, though, because my car is goofy. Could be more, could be less.

Luckily, I really don't ever drive far anymore. It's sad, though, when a drive to the lake on a pretty day becomes an extravagance of sorts.

this sign says it all......:p

Attachment 12805

$3.76 / gal regular yesterday.

CNN had an interesting article on gas prices: Behind high gas prices: The refinery crunch.

The article says that no new refineries have been built in the US since 1976, and discusses how this affects gas prices.

Why build expensive refineries when you can just raise the price for more profit? The greenies support this also because they feel increased price is the way to cut consumption.

Don't you?

And, what's a greeny?

An environmentalist.

Environmentalists mostly.

Basically people that follow the Green Party.

It hasn't cut consumption...yet. I wonder what price will be the breaking point? Scary thought.

3.49 in suburbs of Chicago. Is it really 4.25 in Cali??? Sorry I haven't kept up with the thread.

I don't know, but read somewhere a prediction of $4.50 before it starts to affect SUV sales. That would be the first sign, evidently.

Apparently there actually was a driving cutback over the past year.

It looks to be more of "it's not increasing at the same rate" rather than serious cutting down (for the most part.) It's a start. But wait a minute...look who did the study:
He should be delivering my American Family Publishing Sweepstakes check, not conducting gas use studies. :rolleyes:

Not increasing at the same rate as the population means that people are cutting back. Not enough to counteract the larger number of people, though.

True. Duh to me.

:o

I wonder if that data includes commercial traffic as well as personal vehicles? I'm betting the trucks rolling into walmart, supermarkets and home depot haven't reduced.

They said "average American motorist", so I'd doubt they're talking commercial vehicles.

Nope. I clocked up over 100,000 miles last year and I plan to beat that this year. Commercial trucks will not slow down or stop because of fuel prices. We simply charge more to cover the increased operatting cost.

In other words, YOU buy the diesel that I burn at a rate of about 5.5 MPG. You pay for your groceries and widgets, which I bring to the stores. And waste fuel by idling away the nights to keep my truck comfortable and my TV running.

Never fear to ask me about trucking. I'm more than willing to share my inside knowledge with everyone!

Brian

I bet the local delivery trucks for FedEx UPS etc have increased dramatically with online shopping.

Hitting $3.099 here in GA.

It's 30-35 cents more in CA. Sounds about right for the California antismog blend.

It's [almost] official -- we're above 1981 gas crisis levels.

...but it doesn't appear to be stopping anyone.

I went to the gas station at lunch (only because as I was leaving the lot my car almost died due to low fuel.) That particular gas station was packed. I wondered why $3.15 was such a big deal. A woman told me the Speedway right up the street was at $3.49.

I should pay more attention!

I saw somebody on a Vespa-type scooter the other day. Unusual for my town. I've looked at those some.

I saw someone on a pink one with a matching pink helmet yesterday - looked very cute. They're probably dead now, since I saw them on 202 at rush hour, but still, very cute.

BTW - any locals know why it smells so bad at 202 and Westtown Rd? Has had that public restroom/ D-town paper mill odor for weeks now... never noticed it before.

Unleaded Fuel is $1.52 per LITRE here this morning.

I put the high performance stuff in my car, at a lovely $1.58...fuckers

Here's an article debunking gas myths, like the one that says running your air conditioner will use up fuel:

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/070515/050...pf=family-home

Notice it says that the best way to save gas is to drive sensibly at the speed limit and avoid quick stops and starts.

Like THAT'S going to happen!

I thought the best way to save gas (besides riding your bike) is to get one of these.

My number one fuel-saving rule is "Brakes waste gas."

I think we should go back to horses for short distances.

Running an air conditioner will use up fuel. Maybe not a lot, but don't misread the article. It's simple physics. If you ask the engine to do more work, it will take more fuel to do that work.

If I'm sitting at a red light in neutral, and I turn on the air conditioner, I can hear the engine increase its idle speed as the AC compressor turns on. The article talks about a test done at highway speed comparing having the windows open to having the A/C on. They did not compare all the other various driving situations. The amount may be negligible, but it absolutely uses more gas to run the A/C.

The tips about driving habits and tire pressure are good ones though.

Cool, do you need my shipping address so you can have your dealership deliver it to me? Thanks, man! :rolleyes: