Baltic Exchange, City of London (that's the square mile of trading, inside London itself - like Wall Street but bigger and older)
Enniskillen.

Grrrrrrrrrr :dedhorse:
Addressed last night

Anyway, back to Neil Gaiman...
Nah, I'd best just start a thread. His world of mythology and literature and classical references does not sit well here.

The "Ramadan" issue of "Sandman" fits this thread well... Written during the HWBush Gulf War, I read it for the first time around the WBush Gulf War.

Remember:

Pearl Harbor
The Armenian Massacre
The Chinese massacre of 1871
The Massacre at Wounded Knee
The Massacre at Mountain Meadows

Merc: Where is the line drawn to separate actions of a few from hatred of the entire group ?

Attempting to demean an entire group by hatred of the few is futile tactic, whether it be in religion or in war.

the Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre of August 24, 1572

Hey, let's make the list longer...

The Granada massacre - 1066 CE
The St Brice's Day massacre - 1002 CE
The Massacre of Thessaloniki - 390 CE
The Menai Massacre- 61 CE

And don't forget all Students because of the Columbine Massacre

No only because you associate 11 September with a hate of Islam. There is no valid relationship between Islam and 11 September. A moderate does not care whether is it is called a church, synagogue, temple, oracle, or mosque. No relation to 11 September exists if ignoring wacko extremist rhetoric. The same rhetoric that preaches IslamoFascism.

I love it when TheMercenary replies. He demonstrate the hate that underlies extremist politics. The only reason we are discussing this mosque: so many believe lies and hate promoted by wacko extremists. The same hate that TheMercenary posts at me - and uses to constantly attack Obama.

The enemy is bin Laden. Some extremists are so full of hate to automatically associate a mosque and Islam with 11 September. Islam is a convenient target to power extremism. For Hitler, it was the Jews. Hate empowers extremists. If you have any problem with that mosque, then you are too entrenched in the hate advocated by extremism.

This thread exists only because too many are brainwashed in the hate and fear of Muslims. Notice how often the routine extremists have posted. Notice how easy they get angry when the reasons for their hate is identified. Too many conveniently forget who the enemy is – bin Laden - not that mosque and not Islam.

But there's not a complete disconnect, that's what makes it difficult. Separating radical Islamics from the rest is probably easier in person, in that they're the ones trying to kill you, than it is in the abstract.
Of course not making that distinction is intellectually, and morally, lazy, but certainly easier, and makes for more compact sound bites.

Uh, no.
Who apparently died several years ago due to heart or kidney malfunction.
This is like a car race. You just keep going in circles.

There has been no sighting of bin Laden since December 2001.
No intelligence has reported anything of himsince 2001.
Most international observers believe bin Laden died years ago.

bin Laden would not have remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with.

bin Laden was often reported to be in poor health & to have a life expectancy of only months perhaps a year back in 2001 & 2002.

tx - You go ahead and beat the drum on the dead guy because its good for YOUR extremist hateful view. You are blind to that reality. Honestly, thats ok. Just leave me the out of it - mmmkay?

Here are a couple more links ...
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/as...rzai.binladen/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2135473.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/eu...binladen.will/

Oh for pete's sake. Where are you getting bin Laden died?

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT Osama bin Laden is dead. Even snopes says it's an ill-advised rumor (undetermined but ridiculous to just think that it's true.) That's a funny thing to hang your hat on, in your ongoing act of putting your fingers in your ears and mumbling "blah blah blah blah" so as not to actually hear anything.

Oh yeah, I know you're ignoring me, but maybe someone else will tell you to find something better for your debate about whether the mosque is appropriate or not (or in your constant match with tw to decide who gets to pee in what spot) than "OSAMA IS DEAD." Whether he is or not is irrelevant to this discussion anyway (though it would be in the interest of extremists and the former Bush admin for us to BELIEVE it...whew, damn, good thing he's dead, right?)

Sigh. I try, I really do...but the ignorance, it stings.

tw, you're right about extremists, and bruce put it in a good way (that it's difficult to discern radicals from regulars, just like say, Catholics)...but this same crap over and over and over... Right about now we need a picture of 9/11 to remind us to hate.

:mad:

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are all Abrahamic religions, as they all worship the God of Abraham. There shouldn't be houses of worship for any of these religions near ground zero.:bolt:

I can't say I've peered into the depths of tw's brain but I'm assuming he is using Osama Bin Ladin as anyone who shares the same extremist world view. Just because Bin Ladin may have died does not mean the same anti-western philosophies don't exist and thrive in certain areas of the world. Bin Ladin's direct influence is probably extremely low even if he did survive to this day. But, he will live on as a symbol for a long time.

:redcard:

BTW, photos/video or it never happened

:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
:D

Don't worry, he's ignoring you too. He's told you and told you that!

This point of view sounds more based in atheism than in religion.

Now I'm gonna go beat up on the fat target.

Tw forgets that Osama bin Laden wouldn't have gone anywhere nor become anything without Islam generally. He got positive feedback by the ton lot from the anti-Western sector of Islam. Not Christianity, not Judaism, nor even the Copts, still less the Cathars: he got it from Islam.

Tw's other point of inattention is he believes his personal opinions to be both neutral and natural. Then he tries to tell half the world it should agree they are, in the presence of the half that knows they are not. I'd try and repair that sort of thing if it happened to me...

As I have said many times when Classicman was constantly posting lies about his death: The enemy is bin Laden and his organization called Al Qaeda. But since I was replying again to Classicman, I dumbed it down only to bin Laden. No reason to write it all out. He will not hear it anyway. Limbaugh has not yet told him how to think.

Which changes nothing. This discussion exists because extremists have promoted hate and fear of Islam.

An extremist keep citing himself as a citation to prove bin Laden is dead. Another technique taught in propaganda school. Anything to obfuscate those inciting hate and fear of Muslims. It’s only a mosque. Not an axis of evil – another myth invented by same extremists to create fear and hate. The enemy is bin Laden – and those who invent fear of Muslims for political power. Oh. It’s all Obama’s fault.

Greg Gutfield: I'm building an Islamic gay bar next to the GZ mosque

Have you not quoted yourself repeated tw? I did it intentionally to mock you.
Even you are not that much a fool not to see that.

And again for the record. I do not listen to nor agree with Limbaugh.
Your extremist views seem to blind you from the truth. Why is it that you cannot see?

Are you able to acknowledge and state these extremists were nineteen Muslims, the blind sheikh and how many convicted co-conspirators? Are you able to even read these words?

No. But look how much else is; it's plenty. Jeezus, kid, you're worse than Redux. Knowing you, I cannot say I'm surprised. But what a terrible thing to make an effort for! I'll blame you personally for Obama; no one can blame me for voting against that stuck-in-the-Sixties Socialist because I'm too smart to believe in bread and circuses. I voted against him once and will do it again. But I can blame you for breaking the economy because you weren't with it enough to read and digest Henry Hazlitt, can't I?

Next to that Gay bar should be a NOW chapter

And there's another toughie: calculating the desirability of having drunked-up NOW people spilling into the streets. Oyyyy.

This:

tw, will you marry me? ;)

Après qu'on fetche la vache, we'll tell him we've got another!

Now they've gone too far!

The Muslims have built a minaret on the 2012 Republican Convention logo!

bold mine ...

I would have thought that it was obvious that I was being tongue in cheek.

I'm more concern about the red exploding oil rig on the logo. :eek:

David Frum figures it out: the mosque idea is a real estate developer's floated notion, and it was just a stunt and will never be built. This seems highly plausible to me.

And to imagine all the bs that was generated over the issue. Another example of the volatility information age, add a little internet and a hot button issue. What would motivate someone to start this rumor.

Extremists used animosity to blame 11 September on Saddam and Islam. No extremist hatred; then no volatility.

Neither Islam nor Saddam created 11 September. Volatility and "Mission Accomplished" both directly traceable to an extremist agenda. Extremism is the only reason why this thread even exists.

Good that the mosque was proposed. Demonstrated how widespread and explosive this extremist hostility is. Volatility identifies both extremists and those easily brainwashed by their political agenda. Shame on them for so dishonoring the 3000 that died with lies. Islam did not create 11 September. Only lies from a political agenda - not the Internet - created this resulting volatility.

Amazing how some still deny the only reason for this controversy.

I think you've mentioned that. :haha:

Extremists have not apologized yet for promoting hate that made this issue volatile. Not that I expect extremists to be honest. The purpose of extremism is to lie for a political agenda. An honest apology would only subvert the agenda.

“Fear, little girl. There might be a Muslim hiding in your closet.” Once the word Muslim was replaced by Jew. Same hate. Different bogeyman. Different century. Same purpose.

Next, we will start blaming immigrants. Always have an enemy. Hate makes recruiting the most naïve easy.

No, just illegal immigrants.

When we say "It's Bush's fault" it's akin to saying "it was Hitler's fault" in my eyes.

I thought about that last night, and was glad to see tw put it much more eloquently than I would have.

If'n you all want to fear someone, fear ME! :rolleyes:

Already some of the most right wing is talking about a population explosion and why we must further restrict all immigration.

The #1 reason for illegal immigration is immigration laws so ridiculous and restrictive as to make people we need go illegal.

So extremists invent myths such as increased kidnapping in Phoenix AZ. Reality. As the number of illegal immigrants increases, kidnappings decreased in Phoenix. Extremisms is about inventing lies to promote hate - ie increased kidnapping in Phoenix. Or Saddam's WMDs - a classic example.

We don’t have an illegal immigration problem. We have screwed up immigration laws. But attacking illegal immigrants is another easy target to promote hate - to promote the wacko extremst agenda.

Yeah, you know, it's just like banks. If they weren't so damn secure and restrictive fewer people would have to rob them.

Jackass.

False - The #1 reason for illegal immigration is because America is 5 gazillion times better than where they are coming from.

So why does the Silicon Valley in less than one week use up all the HiB visas for the entire year. Why do we need 1.8 million farm workers and only issue visas for 20,000? Why do numbers and reality always disagree with wacko rhetoric?

Oh. Islam attacked the WTC. So now its all about evil immigrants - who are traditionally the source of the most productive Americans. Clearly we must protect America from these evil people.

Thanks for proving my point.

Whether you like Obama or not, he has made an exceptional statement in support of freedom of religion,
and (therefore) in support of building this mosque.

NY Times article
Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

In part, he said:
I have posted this statement by Obama, and previously posted Mayor Bloomberg's statement, in the hope that people will see that this is not an issue for partisan politics or even of the "war on terrorism".

It is a matter of basic freedom of religion and is essential for our form of government.

Too late for that. Sarah Palin wasted no time using hate to gain political support. From The Economist of 7 Aug 2010: Even The Economist notes bin Laden is the enemy. And that blaming Muslims can only promote more pain and hate. So why do so many extremists promote that loathing. It was not just Palin.
Why are extremists quoted by The Economist using expressions such as "deliberate insult", "ground-zero mosque", and "stab" American hearts? Same revulsion that also said, "We want Obama to fail."

A strong movement in the Republican party even attacks their own including moderate Republicans including Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Olympia Snowe, and Susan Collins. These Conservative Republican Senators are too liberal for extremists inspired by animosity and daily doses of Limbaugh and Beck.

This mosque made painfully obvious the hate and resulting nastiness behind extremist posts. Hate that even blames immigrants for crime waves that do not exist. Hate intentionally used by Palin to rally support.

Kudos to Imam Rauf for exposing this hate fundamental to and that inspires our extremists.

Good points Pat:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pa...surprised.html

Link

even more details here

Soooo... I guess this is just food for thought.

The same distance as the mosque site, from "hallowed ground".

Bruce? You ok? No review? WTH?

You're slippin' in your retirement years...

Politics or Hypocrisy -
Or, What comes around eventually goes back around

After all the problems the Church of Latter Saints has had in it's history here in the US,
you would think Senator Reid would have better judgement...
or else he has committed the sin of hypocrisy for political reasons.

I don't know his true motivations, but I certainly question his judgment in making this feeble announcement.
Doing or saying anything at all just to get re-elected will come back to bite him where it hurts...


ABC NEWS
By RUSSELL GOLDMAN
Aug. 16, 2010

Sen. Harry Reid Breaks With Obama Over 'Ground Zero Mosque'
President Obama's Support for Islamic Center Opened Door to Republican Assault

Thinking the mosque should be built somewhere else, and doing something governmental to prevent it being built there are two very separate things.

Thank you Jinx. I disagree with tw - I don't think you are an extremist.

What is an extremist to an extremist? According to classicman, there are no extremists. Couldn't be. A xenophobe could not see a xenophobe as a xenophobe. To a xenophobe, xenophobia is normal behavior.
So has Starbucks. But hate to advance a political agenda does not work by blaming Starbucks. Extremist seek easier targets: niggers, spics, kikes, fags, short people, Hilary, and Muslims. It is still intolerance. Xenophobia promoted to rally their supporters. No wonder these same extremists advocate, “We want Obama to fail.”

This mosque simply makes radicalism and bigotry obvious.

Nice list - All but three of which are in my immediate or extended family. No relation to Hillary (correct spelling) sorry.

So because I agree with her and not you, we are xenophobes as well as extremists? Thanks. I like the company I am in.

*points and laughs*

You're related to short people!

HEY! Watch it!

I AM short people

Where?

In your nightmares.
Ya know, It sucks when reality hits you in the face and you realize you were totally wrong.
Too bad some cannot see nor admit that. They are called extremists by some. Typically, those people who are calling them extremists are themselves as extreme as those they are calling extremists are as extreme as those they are calling extremists are as extreme as those they are calling extremists are as extreme as those they are calling extremists are as

Assjacket.

Once a xenophobe is identified, then he no longer appreciates humor.

Xenophobe. Clearly Islam must be evil because Limbaugh, et al warns us of Islamofascism. And because classicman tells us Islam created 11 September. Must be true. Limbaugh, Palin, and Gringrich say it is so.

Islam did not do 11 September. Amazing how extremists will do everything to avoid going after bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Islam is an easy target. Always attack easy targets. Enflame your supporters by created mythical evil.

So enflamed by hate, is he, as to not even see a good joke. So easily made angry. He is a wacko extremist. The definition of xenophobia. Enemies are lurking everywhere to kill us all - an axis of evil. Only a xenophobe fears Islam and mosques – because Limbaugh and Hannity tell him how to think – no hate.

Alive and exposed is xenophobia - even from short people.

I didn't realize you were short. That might explain your napoleon complex.