I liked this.

Right... because you know them so well.

Witty...almost.

I'd say half-witty.

Shitty?

Or maybe its just drinking too much http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DVT3_9Aqgl...0/haterade.jpg to wash down all that :corn: he is always eating here.

:corn:

I give you credit, Merc. You always stand by your posts (with popcorn in hand), as misguided or ignorant, IMO, as some of them are.

You dont attempt to lie your away out of them or make a feeble attempt to recast them as meaning something other than what was intended... or go whining to the mods that you're being picked on.

:fumette:

Yea, I could basically give a fuck what anyone thinks about my position on issues.

Then why even post?

I guess in the hope that there will be a legitimate exchange of ideas and to hear what others think about any issues. I have modified many of my thoughts and views since posting on this forum. It is healthy. I respect many of the posters on this site for their contrary views and ideas. It can only be a good thing to keep expanding and exploring thoughts and ideas that I may find contrary. No cost.

Why not? Should anyone not post because the feel their opinion won't be accepted? That's crazy talk. Should you post your opinion with the intention of winning people over to your side? Good luck with that. All opinions are welcome, even abrasive ones. The more everyone knows, not only facts and figures, but how other real people feel about issues, the better they're prepared to deal with the world.

Maybe I misunderstood. To me this sounds like you do care.

He cares what others say because it's enriching... doesn't lose sleep over what people think of what he says, just throws it on the pile with the rest.

100% completely correct. It is not that I don't care or completely discard what others say, only that I don't really care about what others think about what I say or think. I have been around the world to many situations and many places that most people will never go or never have the chance to experience, I place value on MOST but not all, of others experiences and perspectives. But it does not mean that I either placate or facilitate those views. They are just other views, just like mine, some are filed, some are dissected, many are just discarded. I don't think most people on here treat me with even that much respect or consideration.

No we don't. The manner in which you present your ideas drives those of us who could agree with some of them away. The hate, the anger, the lack of humanity buries your ideas completely. If your intention here is to pull others to your position you are failing because you don't express your position in terms of what would be good and how it would be good, but only in reaction to the bad which is already obvious to all but the most ardent left-wing believers.

:corn:

Okay, to clarify.

It makes me laugh because to riot on a contingency basis is just absurd. Grim absurdities abound in this clash of civilizations, and most of the absurd seems to be on our opponents' side. They look about as goofy as Rage Boy (q.v.). He could seriously advertise some toothpaste all over Pakistan. It'd be about like Baghdad Bob emigrating to America and getting a job advertising cars -- "Would I lie to you?"

I thought the riots were a reaction to the NJ Transit employee burning pages from the Koran in NYC?

Sheesh. Are the rioters of Kabul, now resting from their labors, well enough informed to distinguish Florida from NYC? There are those on the ground who report they are not.

Et encore, c'est rire.

Most likely not. That doesn't matter. Like any good extremist, they believe what they are told.

That thinking is silly....

I do not expect you or others to agree with me. Only to respect my decisions to express them, as contrary to what you think and believe. You can't even do that. I don't need to justify my thinking, philosophy or ideas about issues to you or anyone else. Accept them or reject them, I am cool with that... But you can't do that.

It's not your thinking or philosophy, it's the hand grenades that have an antisocial effect. ;)

Eh, so be it.

I am a military guy, direct, take it or leave it, what you see is what you get. There is no hidden agenda. I accept that whatever the perspective is after that is a normal life event. My experience is that people will evaluate exchanges on the internet as a narrow view of their world understanding combined with their life experience to that point. It is not a dig, just an observation. The other observation is that if you think you know someone based upon exchanges on a public forum your are a total fucked up dick and you have a brain the size of a pea, just like Spexxvet.

See you liberal progressive cocksuckers in Nov. Then we can talk.

Hand grenades are not the posts where you say something, they're the posts where you don't. They have no purpose except to agitate, and they do. It's your choice, I'm just sayin'.

Understood. Thanks for your input.

My motivation, as assessed is often not to agitate, often is is really how I feel about issues. How does one divide that out? How do you peel off what is in your heart and what you really feel from some Bullshit touchy feely pile of crap that many try to pass off as "trying to keep the peace" bullshit conversation? Dancing around the issues? Deep throating the party line of the current powers that be? Tiptoeing around the issues of race and scumbags from the far left throw out the race card to shut down conversation and dissent? Now every single person who disagrees with the socialist agenda of Obama or the Demoncrats is now a racist or a bigot. What has happened is they have reset the race card back to the 1950's and in many peoples mind they are going to have to restart it all again with this exploitive tactic of using the race card for every aspect of fighting and disagreeing with disagreement. the idea of anyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist needs to be put to bed, it is bullshit.

So be it, but don't be surprised by the bed you now have to lay in.

Because you don't expand your arguments with whatever lessons you've learned in life, I make assumptions to fill in the blanks. You have emerged from the largest socialist enterprise in our country the US Army. You've been fed, clothed, sheltered, and educated by us the taxpayers. You were taken care of and told what to do most of your adult life, but now you are confronted by the real world you defended. Now you realize you don't care much for a democracy of the real world where people have to figure out how to feed, cloth, shelter, and educate themselves. That is the person I see complaining about taxes. I'm sure you see me as a cartoon as well, but I've at least attempted to communicate where I'm coming from.

I do get a laugh out of "deep throating the party line" in the same post as "socialist agenda of Obama and the Democrats"......no partisan bullshit in the latter.

And I always get a laugh out of your many partisan editorials and when those editorials are challenged, your characterization of the differing opinion expressed here as partisan talking points....no contradiction there.

I try to back my opinions with facts. Can you say the same? Of course, you characterize any facts I post as partisan talking points or demand that I prove a negative or pull out the popcorn. Common tactics when you cant support your own opinion.

Playing the race card? You care to cite some examples of how others play the race card in discussions here and you dont (NAACP is racist, mayor of Savannah is racist, etc)?

And then of course, the cock suckers, tit suckers, nazis, whores cunts....all very helpful to any discussion.

I appreciate your effort to clarify your thoughts. Unsurprisingly, I disagree with your conclusions.

You presume you know the motivations of the rioters, which you can not (nor can I). But your theory is absurd, consistent for you, but ironic given your constant admonitions of other dwellars' poor thinking. You have made the mistake of picking your "facts" to conform to your theory. A good thinker does just the opposite, conforming their theories to the facts.

You say "It makes me laugh because to riot on a contingency basis is just absurd." I disregard the rest of your paragraph because it is only more of your whining insults, nothing like a critical assessment of what's going on outside your head. You claim the rioters' actions were motivated on a "contingency basis" and call that absurd. In fact, you use this as the foundation for your string of insults. But there is no fact to support such a theory. The only facts here are that a pastor in Florida threatened to burn some Korans and that some people rioted.

The best (simplest, most reasonable and believable, most consistent) correlation that can be made between these two facts, a pastor threatened to burn some Korans and some people rioted) is that the people were incited to riot by the threats made by pastor. This is not absurd. It may be an overreaction by the standards of some. Let me draw an analogy. If you were faced with someone who is shouting loudly and aggressively, threatening to do you harm, and you were carrying your firearm, what would you do? Would you wait until he physically harmed you before you shot him? Maybe you would shoot him before he had the chance to do so. If you did, would you say to the police that you'd shot him on a "contingency basis"? Or would you say your responded to the threat of violence?

I contend that the reason the rioters' acted violently is because they were responding to the threat of violence, not because of some absurd, "contingency basis".

It is possible that you are unable to empathize with people who feel so strongly about their religion that such a threat is tantamount to violence, and would respond accordingly. This might partly account for why you wouldn't see such an obvious correlation, and therefore had to come up with such an absurd one. However, I don't think I can help you become more empathetic.

As I understand it, the Kabul riots were in response to a fatal car crash between a car driven by American contractor, and one driven by an Afghan.

I will never be able to empathize with people that practice arson, physical violence, and murder, in response to insulting a book, or in fact insulting Deities themselves.

You want to burn a Bible, have at it... unless it's mine.
And Deities by definition are much more powerful than I, therefore they can fight their own battles.

What was the threat of violence? How was this pastor "violent" from half way around the world?

xoB, I also believe such a response to such a provocation is an overreaction, to say the least. But I do empathize with them. I know I have, and every other person has, feelings and beliefs that are held so closely that an insult or a threat to those beliefs is indistinguishable from an insult or a threat to my person. And some threats to my person will be met with violence.

Where is the line between one's beliefs and one's self? What things are worth defending? Each person answers such question for themselves, but I believe we all have them, including those absurd Afghans.

Read the next paragraph.

I can't think of any I would kill over.

That's immaterial, the question is where's the line between insult and physical threat.
Defending from what, someone changing you mind(beliefs)? No one can force you to do that. Now if they threaten you with retribution for not changing your mind, then it's kick ass time.

Not even bacon?

That's not a belief.

I believe in bacon.

But you suggest stoning all of a woman's male relatives for making the woman wear a burka. I guess you have a little wiggle room there.

Christ, you really don't get it, do you. :facepalm:

The difference is that I had to give up something to get those perks. I had to make many sacrifices that neither you or many other will ever have to give up. It was a business arrangement between me, and the sacrifices I had to make over 20 years, and the government, who gave me the perks, it was and is a contract, written and re-negotiated at milestones over the course of 20 years. The real world has no such contracts or responsibilities to get the perks of food, clothing, shelter, and education with the government. So I don't think there is much of a comparison. But of course you have repeatedly reinforced your assessment of my views on most subjects. I don't see you as a cartoon at all. I see you as a real person with a family and much of the same responsibilities that I have, and a significantly different view about life. You want me to tolerate what you respect, but yet you find me and my views completely non-respectable. I accepted that a long time ago. Peace.

Merc, does that mean that you would support social programs as long as they required some degree of commitment from the recipients? Jobs programs for those who are willing to work, welfare for those who are willing to attend occupational training, food for those who will work in the food kitchen/garden some number of hours? Healthcare for those who... what? Can you think of a reciprocal commitment that would be fair for people who needed to be on a federal healthcare plan?

[off the cuff response] yes, all of that. Really my only point was to say there is no comparison to my experience, socialized system (completely false premise IMHO), to the current social system of increasing public dependence.

I need to think on this to formulate a more complete response.

Minor quibble; You didn't have to do it, you thought it was a good deal and you took it and the others who paid for it did so without the job security you enjoyed. Condescension is an interesting poison which we both seem to like. Where interactions with you are concerned, I fall into the same klesha that you fall into whenever you talk politics. I'll try for peace, but your passion for the fringe doesn't strike me as a way to a sensible solution to our mounting debt crisis, so despite our not so dissimilar economic views we will be in conflict.

Hardly a minor difference. I had a contract for job, which I had to qualify for, through an education, or I would not have gotten the job. Once the system accepted my application I had to abide by a set system of terms and conditions. And throughout that period I had to continually requalify to continue to receive my pay and benifits. That is hardly a comparison to a socialized system where your only qualification is that you have to do nothing and someone else pays your way.... for generations.

That may be so, but your disdain for me is well documented on this forum. I have hardly made such comments to you or about you with the exception of when I first joined, what, years ago. So be it.

Stop it Merc. Griff is not the one to pick this fight with. He's been more open than many to at least dialogue with you.

Why in the world would you think I was trying to pick a fight with him!

Good fucking grief, I can't even disagree with something someone states, state a counter position with it being viewed as "picking a fight".

I felt like we were making some headway in having an agreeable disagreement about some issues. Isn't that how people hash stuff out? I have been quite civil in this exchange and all my exchanges since LJ started his 40 plus page rant about me.

Anyone feel free to pile on.

okie dokie.

True. It goes back to your abuse of Ibram. He has essentially dropped off the board, it was a long time ago, and I need to let it go.

But why do you leave off my public apology to him? I screwed up big time and admitted it to him and everyone else here. Am I not allowed a chance to make amends when I see that I have done wrong? Is perfection of a man your standard? When a person makes a mistake and then makes a public apology to the person he wronged is that not enough? When do I get that break? Ibram was owed an apology and got one. What he chose to do with it from that point forward was his decision. But if you carefully re-read that thread and see what I said to him maybe you could cut me some slack. We have all had to deal with internal demons, he just happened to bring some forth for me and I had to face them after what I said to him. They are still there to some degree, but I at least admitted to the community that I was wrong.

I was probably not reading it very charitably back then. You've admitted the wrong here. I will try to focus on what you write not my preconceptions of you. I can see you are not attempting to start something, you are finishing something and that is admirable. I will also strive to be a better dwellar. I apologize for being a complete bastard to you.

And I to you. I propose a peace pact. I recognize that we are both passionate in our feelings about issues but I assure you that I am not, nor have I ever been a one trick pony. I have a wide range of diverse views and opinions on things. I completely respect your divergence of my views and will strive to be a better poster to you personally. I publicly apologize if have said anything offensive to you personally, not about our differing views, but about you. Please accept my apology and let's move forward from this point. I can't go back and change some of the things I have said to you, but I acknowledge them and will try to make amends. That is the best I can do.

That right there is what it's all about... good goin' you guys! :thumbsup:

Peace.