You would have to stop posting for 3 1/2 months before you would drop under 10/day average.

Bullshit. :)

static to noise is largely unquantifiable, no?

first of all, 'static' in the sense you refer to is subjective. second, who's to say that of my 13.89 posts per day, that X amount of those posts are noise?

I'm not saying that every one of my posts is gold, but i would say that at least half(6.945) of them are more than just chit chat. the missing ingredient is time spent reading other posts. there are no statistics for that. I'd bet my wallet that I spend more time reading than most of the folks here, so it's only natural that i will have more to say in response. In addition to that, the 'good' posts that i make certainly number more than most on sheer statistical odds. The 'bad' ones too, if we assume a 50/50 split of good/bad posts..... ( most of you have averages below that 6.9 mark)

All of this focus on post quality will probably be good for us in the long run, so you could say that HB is doing us a service by taking the role of watchdog here, and sacrificing some good will he has surely earned over the years. Either, HB cares so much that he is willing to take one for the team and not back down, or he doesn't care much at all for the people behind the posts and therefore risks nothing in offending them. (which he said himself that he expected) If I had to bet, i'd go with the former.

And yet, it is natural for people to react when they are rebuffed by someone they feel some amount of respect for. For the newbies, we look over there and see a registration date in 2001 and must assume that that person is one of the 'giants' that HB has exhalted. I still think that if you're going to dump the post count, you should dump the reg date, too. I mean, is the date that you discovered the cellar more indicitive of talent than post count? or is it equally irrelevant?

and hb would have to post like 30 per day to get up to 5 based on his date of reg...i did say going from 7/1 forward. i know there is no way of tracking that, and i was just making a point anyway:

I could berate people to post more like I do, but I don't .....so he shouldn't.

From the American Heritage Dictionary:

Hubris: Overbearing pride or presumption.

During his long tenure in the financial world, Friedman has watched dozens of his competitors' businesses killed by hubris born of success rather than by unsound business decisions or adverse market conditions.
--Lisa Endlich, Goldman Sachs: The Culture of Success

This is the actor's hubris, to imagine the world possessed of a single, avid eye fixed solely and always on him.
--John Banville, Eclipse

With dizzying hubris, Shelley elevated the vocation of the poet above that of priest and statesman.
--Peter Gay, Pleasure Wars: The Bourgeois Experience


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hubris comes from Greek hybris, "excessive pride, wanton violence."

If the shoe fits... That brief enough for you, HB? Patient DOES show a certain level of self-awareness...

And while I'm at it, if HB's arrogant attitude and sophmoric power of intellectual thought, combined with his excessively self-indulgent style of writing, is an example of the "old" Cellar, I would think that most people would welcome its disappearance rather than mourn it.

:p

Oh, I think he's weel aware of the implications of his chosen title.;)

LJ, why on earth are you taking this so personal. You act like it was Undertoad attacking you personally, when it was just another Dweller stating his preferences. It's a windmill.:)
Remember what I said about rules? That goes for HB and everyone else, also.

Merriam Webster online doesn't recognize it. What do you think it means?

Well I for one believe that the REAL problem is not really one of quality over quantity. It's that, at a certain point, there are so many quantity of posts and threads that it's just impossible to keep up.

I took a look at the stats from the past, and we do generate about twice as many posts as what HB might call a golden era - and three times as many as just half a year learlier. But we also see an increate in the number of threads, a similar increase too.

LOL - oh wait, i can't do that. i can tell you that i had seen HB signed in a couple of times without posting so i was really looking forward to what he would have to say. although i did laugh while reading his post, it was sad... i had to wipe the tear from my eye.

i don't believe in giants around here, but i would have thought HB would have been able to come up with some better sort of retort.
unfortunately, i think we can now give him an honorary french accent, he can wear it like a medal. in my eyes what little weight i did lend to HB's thoughts is gone. his last post, if indicative of the man, would show him to be a self-impressed prick who is probably just a too tightly wound because his poor social interaction skills have prevented him from getting laid for the last oooh, lifetime? and in wonderful form he fires off some insults about our intelligence that he probably had to borrow from a book anyway. so, HB, if you meant to ruffle some feathers with the last post i think you missed the mark - you are just a write-off. sorry if i didn't use enough big words to be deemed worthy of your attention.

i think the point the rest of us stand on is that we enjoy the cellar, we thank tony for all the time and energy he puts into this so we may enjoy it. we make of it what we want - until the great and gloriousUT comes out from behind the curtain to tell us to reel it in. until such time - enjoy yourself - and i'll see if i can find a ladder to help you down from that damn pedastal.

Nah, let him stay up there. That way he can't inflict himself on the rest of the human race.;)

:D Icarus, right?

I do take it personally, bruce. as for why?

it's like this:

the way HB stated his initial point was a trap. he said so himself. He made a shoe. Now, if you respond to it and argue with him, the shoe fits, right? that makes it personal. I post more than anyone here (since dana evaporated, at least) and have always been concerned that I post too much. This strikes a particular nerve for me then. There is enough truth to what HB said to make it sting a little. So I feel like I should stand up for those he accuses of being Tards.

It would be pretty cool if every post was enthralling. I started the creative writing forum in an attempt to encourage that kind of thing.
The problem, as i see it, with being overly careful of making your every post deeply meaningful and well composed is that there are not enough active posters here to do that at a pace which will keep people interested, and coming back every couple of hours or so like they do now. People would eventually drift away, and forget about the cellar. ( how many interesting people came and went before I got here? how many of them would have stuck around longer if they knew they could count on at least 2 or 3 giggles a day in my posts?)

There are people who post drivel more often then not. Fortunately, they don't tend to stay very long (free aol discs do eventually expire) but even they have a value in that they make excellent targets for insults and firm talking down to's. I see myself as someone who's posts are well recieved by most people, so to equate the high post average with a high crap ratio concerns me. At first I tried to not take wht he said personally, but the more I thought about it, the more clear it was that he was speaking to me. Maybe I'm just being self centered, but his last post seems to have confirmed that suspicion. Now, If it was some asshole that said that, it wouldn't bother me nearly as much. I would be just as concerned if you, or Elspode, or UT, or HP, said it. And yes, what griff just said gives me a bit of a pause, too.

But you kow what? fuck it. I'm going to do as I do. it's who I am. if you think it's static, change the channel, or just tune me out. you're right bruce. you're right hubris, you're right onyx, you're right, beestie, UT, lookout, marichiko. we're all fucking right. so goddamn right it should be wrong.

and don't get mad at hubris, he obviously cares. it's just tough love.

now, let's have make up sex! :doit: :doit: :doit: :doit:

I see how a reg date might imply some kind of tenure on this board, but the reality is there are lots of names registered from long ago that in the past 3 years haven't made many (if any) posts. Now, in all of this...bruhaha, it's been implied several times that an old reg date + low low number of posts = low signal to noise ratio/higher intellegence/more meaningful posts/insert your own glorifying conclusion here.

Is that REALLY so? Can that be said without actually looking at all of the posts of such a user? Just because SomeNickname is 4 years old and has 10 posts registered to it doesn't make that person anymore intellectual, any more intellegent, any more a "Giant" than OtherNickname, 1 month old with 40 posts.

HB puts me in mind of a older gent sitting on his porch, grumbling about how things were better in the day, when kids respected their elders, dadgumit, and there weren't so many people around here making noise and there used to be a big beautiful field over there, all built up now, and why can't kids wear their pants where pants go, goin' around with their draws showing, yep things were MUCH Better back in MY day.*spit* *gum gum* Yep.

quote:
Originally posted by ladysycamore
You also said that there is a time and a place for everything.

HIS quote, not YOURS:
http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...5&pagenumber=3


I believe that I clearly stated, "jaguar said" when I quoted that post:
http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...5&pagenumber=4

Scroll down the page and see for yourself that I was speaking directly to jaguar.

Originally posted by ladysycamore
And now I see that you are going to just poof go away and not try to turn the ship 'round.

Again, I was responding to jag who clearly said that he was going to disappear for a while:

http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...5&pagenumber=3

Your own words:
"Important safety tip: Read first, then respond."

Now, you have made it obvious that you are dissatified with the way things are going here on this board and you have also made it clear that you don't give a damn how you project your dissatifaction to others. The level of utter and complete disrespect is appauling, to say the least. Calling people "tards" isn't going to get you what you want (unless alienating posters and hoping they would leave was your goal). Just because you are well read and speak well and can converse "properly" doesn't make you any better than anyone on this board. In fact, that last post of yours made you look like the biggest assfuck in human history...but hey, you don't care so what does that matter, right?

And yes, as a matter of fact, I *do* have quite some time on my hands, and not by choice as you are well aware. My time IS valuable. Therefore, I don't have a whole lot of time to debate with you the ins and outs of a messageboard. The internet, as a whole, is NOT that serious for me personally. The only thing basically that matters to me at this point are the people on my dialysis board and helping them deal with chronic illness, which is ten million times mother fucking INFINITY more important than worrying about how people post on a board. :rolleyes:

Bottom line: you are NOT the owner of this board, and gee whiz, guess what? You don't get to decide who posts and who doesn't. Until UT decides that certain folks are not wanted here, I will continue to post however and whenever I like, just as I'm sure you will (and just as YOU HAVE!).

So if you don't give a fuck, then neither the hell do I.

GOOD DAY!

Nah, let him fall the fuck right off. On his head. :mad:

I prefer a slower pace and a personal connection. I could drop in once a day and see what was up. Many days I'd check in quite often but if I didn't, I could get up to speed in a few minutes. I'm not wired for new cellar. Summers used to be really slow here but now if we drop out we'll find a pile of folks we don't know when we get back. It was a cool experiment in community, while it lasted, but my time here as a regular poster is pretty much over. I don't know and can't get to know you people so why stick around? I'm still here but its no longer important to me to be involved.

that's nice.

happy, hubris boy? jag, griff...who's next?

I take back what I said about having some respect for you. i told you this thread sucks. fucking shit.

no make up sex for you.

you tell us about pissing in the fingerbowls, and then you go pissing in the soup.

jerk off

Okay...what is this rant about?

Christ I wanted to stay out of this thread.

I think Hubris Boy had a good point, and I see where he's coming from, he made a good (if holier than thou) post that laid it all out pretty clearly. I'm a newbie but even late last fall there was a different atmosphere.

I was drawn to it then, like it even a little better now...there is more clutter for sure, but it still has the same overall character....just with a bit new spice.

I think the Giants should stick around and talk. What HB maybe forgot is for every post I make, I'll read probably a couple hundred. I personally seldom like to engage in really heavy stuff, its too time consuming, and after watching the evening news every day I've sorta had my fill.

I do however find many deep threads that I never participate in fascinating. And since we're arguing the same thing over and over, let me repeat my sole contribution to this thread:

Who gives a shit really?

If you're not plannng on sticking around please tell your close friends, but don't bitch and whine to the masses. We really don't care THAT much. I'll miss Jag for example, even tho I disagreed with the majority of his posts I always read them when I saw his handle.

But the whole "it ain't like it used to be" crap, I'm gonna leave...so be it....fucking leave already. I hate to see good posters go but it's a fucking BBS. A cool one at that, 14 years? Seems like it's evolving and sustaining quite nicely.

We do need the Giant NBN to get back to posting more cheesecake.....I do miss that.

Do you post too much? I'd say yeah. But...is it really that big of a deal? Seriously.

How much of the Cellar prior to your arrival have you read? Not every post was deeply meaningful and well-composed. Believe me.

The Cellar is a revolving door...people come and go all the time. It's been like that since I've been here. It will probably continue to be that way.

Lots.

Are you being facetious or are you serious? Not to mention, your question is unanswerable.

Jim, you are starting to sound as bad as HB on the other side of the spectrum. What the hell do you care what this guy thinks of you? All you're doing now is playing into him. Let it go.

it's about the fact that just when i thought we were somewhat assuaging the negative sentiment that hubris created, we lose another respected giant. Griff. did you not read the thread?

or are you too cool to care again? now that you're the calm and collected sycamore. i think you just like to freaking heckle me. why dont you ask rho what she's ranting about. she seems to understand whats going on here better than you do.

Didn't you two make nice at forks?

i was answering bruce's question about why i take it personally.


serious. but i was just using myself as an example. if i see a new post by someone i think is funny, i read it first. or if its a topic i'm extra interested in. what i was saying is that more activity breeds more membership, breeds more content, breeds more activity, breeds more content. more content = more good and more bad. ignore the bad, enjoy the good.

I got re-mad when griff dumped out ( he also asked me to just keep his tshirts) ...anyone want a couple of black (L) short sleevers? hubris brought this shit to a head, and it pisses me off. i'll miss griff even though he didnt post a whole lot. i dont know why, i just like him.

dont be a stranger, griff

Hey! Quit fucking ignoring ME! ;)

shut up. this aint a chat room

Eh...maybe we're reading the thread differently. The way I read it, Griff is sticking around, but is not really into the board that much anymore. And it seems that you're trying to blame that on HB, though I'm not sure why.

???

I'm the calm and collected sycamore more often than not...there are still enough oldheads on here to back me up.

Well, sometimes it's fun to fuck with you b/c you're such an easy target. :)

But seriously...WTF? You need to relax, man.

I think I understand what's going on here just fine.

I don't know why Rho bothered to respond to him again...she needs to let it go too.

Oh you're just cranky about:

Originally posted by ladysycamore

"Ok so how many ppl would I like to get busy with? Nobody in this town, for sure."

That was some funny shit. ;-)

Ahahahahafuckyourself. :)

Don't make me telephone you in about 6 hours.

Ain't that the truth. :)

Hb in his own eyes ,

I understand...but why take it so personally? Imagine what you could have done with the time you wasted here...you could have written 30 new posts. :)

That's not necessarily a good thing though...could result in too many cooks in the soup.

So HB brought things to a head...I don't think that was necessarily a bad thing. I think this dialogue was necessary...now we know where some folks stand. And better now than later, it would seem.

Griff was one of the first non-Philadelphians/non-old-school Cellarites that found the board. He's a good guy, and I hope he will continue to contribute here regularly.

Jim, Syc: Chill already, dudes. As far as I'm concerned you BOTH make very valuable (if very different) contributions to the board. I wish you'd both stop with the quibbling, already. Agree to disagree and move on. I actually like you both and would love to see the two of you move on to better things.

As someone who also posts here frequently, I too felt attacked by HB's posts. But bottom line, his contributions to this board have been as ephemeral as Tomas R.'s - gone when his AOL disk ran out. HB may have registered back before the beginning of time, but has he been a consistent and intelligent member of the board? Not very.

Like Lady Syc, I also sometimes end up with a lot of time on my hands, but like her; it's hardly by my own choice. If any one thinks I'd pick hanging out in the Cellar over running a library, that person is even more arrogant than HB. I like most of you, but give me a break. At least sometimes the Cellar can make up a little for the fascinating discussions I used to have with all those nerds and intellectuals who tend to hang out in libraries. And the reason I'm not staffing the reference desk in one tonight is in part because I've sat here for 10 minutes trying to figure out how to spell "libraries" - Jeez! But I think I sometimes manage a coherant thought or two for all that.

So, HB, go run home to your Mama and complain about life not being fair. She raised you, so she should be the one that gets stuck with your attitude, Dude, not the rest of us. I'm sticking around 'till UT says otherwise or I get too bored or disgusted.

If Jag wants to retreat for a while, that's his loss. I like him a lot and will miss him, but maybe he found a nice Swiss girlfriend to take up his time.

Relax, Mari. Jim and I are having a discussion. He gets a little paranoid and cantankerous sometimes, but it's all good. I'd rather him get pissy here and there than go on a murder spree. :)

Let what go? See, already forgotten. :D

Believe me, once I said, "good day!" that was it.

What an interesting thread this is.

I just read through the first few pages and agree with HB overall. How could I agree, being guilty myself of submitting so much goofy content, or outright garbage? Good question. I certainly see his point though, as well as many of the others that have posted?

UT had a good point in there too. The number of members has increased in just the short time I have been here. It is getting more difficult to keep up simply because the membership has increased so much. The cellar is evolving. That might be good or bad news to you, depending on where you stand.

What the cellar is seems to depend on when you joined. It may very well be in decline to some from the beggining, but for others not at all.

What is the cellar to me? A place to waste time? A place to get another perspective? A place to learn someting? A place to post goofy pics? Yes. Many of you I have met in person and that makes being here all that much more interesting. The cellar is real, not just text. A wide variety of people that I have something in common with, a login at the cellar and maybe some interests or views.

There are a lot of different places you can go to bitch and moan about this or that, and a few that you can go to get specific information. You can't be uncensored there though. Maybe that's good, maybe not. The cellar offers acceptance for those tough skinned enough to endure the inevitable flamefest until you get your bearings and settle in with some like minded folks. That's been a good thing for me.

HB's point about content comes in loud and clear for me though. You just know when you have someting real to contribute and when you don't. Sometimes you post if you just have noise at that particular moment. This place is so addictive though. People just don't get along and basically play nice outside of here. People just don't tolerate you.

Do LJ, Syc and Bruce post too much? I don't think so but I think they're funny, interesting people. Do I post too much? I think so. That's why I tend to take a break for a few months at a time. Maybe people can put up with me trying to amuse myself with what I post if I give them a break. I hope so because I really like it here, even when I'm not around much.

So in light of the admitted lack of real content or real funny content, I think it might be time for me to back off. I wont be going away mad or depressed but just with the realization that I am an addict and that if I stay here and dont get anything accomplished, I wont have nearly as much to talk about than if I went out and did *something*. Then I can come back with something new to add instead of trying to make something interesting out of nothing.

I'll be back though, you guys are my only friends, sad as that may be. :biggrin:

What about Jethro* or did the mailorder bride finally do him in?



*Name changed to protect the innocent