The sooner we leave, the better. The longer we stay, the more dead and the deeper the quagmire. When will we EVER learn the lessons that history has to teach?

My thoughts on the election outcome.

Sycamore, what the heck is that? The "wolf-sycamore" commentary show? Or is it an alternate Cellar universe where everything is different colors? :)

Eh, my comments, here, which replaced my front page and will for the next three days.

There's a whole lot of yelling on the 'net, tonight. ...and a whole lot of good any of it is going to do. :headshake

More or less...don't forget Bruce. :)

The Bosque replaced the original Sycamore Manifestos in February.

Ashcroft resigning?
 

If you go to Drudge right now there is this (unlinked) headline:

<b><i>Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'... </i></b>

Holy shit! This is a step in the right direction, if true. Maybe there really is a God. Is this going to be 'A Kinder, Gentler America: Part 2'?

Wow, Syc. That was -- eloquent. :thumbsup:

Not if he replaces him with Anita Bryant..

Seriously, this could be an attempt to de-politicize the DOJ, or it could be an attempt to bring in someone with less ethics to overlook the indiscretions of large campaign contributors. One thing about Ashcroft is that he was honest. It might be that Karl needs to repay some debts and an honest man would make things complicated.

Eh...I don't recall things being kindler and gentler during Bush Sr.'s term.

Not really. I expect Ashcroft to be replaced with someone just as bad, perhaps not as flamboyant as Mr. Let The Eagle Soar, but equally dangerous.

My stomach has been hurting all day. I hope to get at least a little sleep tonight.

Eh...they were kinder and gentler then than they are now. Maybe Dubya is back smoking dope again. I just dunno.

Good freakin lord, yanno, I do have a JOB where I don't exactly have the ability to respond to your comments.

And I'm not going to bite on a bone that's been drug through the mud. Really no use in it. You're convinced you're right, I'm convinced I'm right. When you put your hackles down (Both of you), maybe we'll be able to talk about this intelligently.

Considering I've been splattered with the mud both of you are slinging, I'm doubting that highly.

But considering I've been called an anti-feminist ignorant bigoted babykiller today, I guess I will just go back to my hole.

Good lord people are ugly today.

I went looking at the Selective Service website. I did so to confirm some information that I thought I recalled. 18 year olds began having to register with the selective service in 1980, based on a law initiated in July of that year. Who was responsible? Jimmy Carter.

First off, I don't recall whining. That's more your territory...you seem to have a knack for it. I do what needs to be done, I don't sit around and wish someone else will do it for me.

I have two Bachelor's degree, a Master's degree, and have probably forgotten more about some things than you'll ever hope to learn.

I'm still not sitting there with my hand out waiting for the state to Pay my Rent.

I have a job. It may not pay much, but it pays. I'm not even going to waste my time with this. I was making a civil statement that did not attack you in ANY way, and you start slinging shit.

Try upping your dose of Paxil babe..you need it.

In my opinion.........anytime...not excluding yesterday. The real question being, what are we really looking to win? Mid East democracy is a doomed ideal from the outset. A complete fiction. No matter how much we expect to gain from this with fuel, we will never cover the cost of taxpayer dollars and the expense of human lives. We have begun to indebt ourselves to failure.

Good lord people are ugly today.

What's wrong with everyone? Why must you yell like this? My god... c-can't you see you're all tearing this family apart? :bawling:

Stop yelling! The kids are going to hear us!

Unfortunately, pulling out will result in Iraq being a massive terrorist state. If that is inevitable, then pulling out ASAP is best. If there's a hope of some sort of functioning government, it may be worthwhile holding out for it. I'm not sure whether there's hope at this point.

I feel that we have completely destabilized the area. The choices are a US propped government in Iraq with continued guerilla unrest or pulling out and leaving things to the various warring factions who will ultimately sort things out amongst themselves. Neither option is pretty.

You know what, Dagney? I apologize. I have been terribly upset by the outcome of this election and I lost it. While I don't agree with you politically, this doesn't mean I have to get nasty about it. I'm sorry.

The war on terrorism. Terrorism won. Drugs the won war on drugs....guess who won the war on poverty? Maybe we need to dismantle these half-baked problem solving ideas and come up with a solution to help our homeland instead of propagandizing the situation, and ultimately proving terrorism works.

Oh my god, that's hilarious! We've sunken to blaming Jimmy-friggin-Carter for things now? I was pretty young during his presidency, but I do remember that Iran was in our faces pretty bad during those years. Funny, but Mr. Carter didn't decide to start in full-scale, zillion dollar, unwinnable war with Iran. Oh wait, maybe it's because they didn't have any "Weapons of Mass Destruction."

Almost everybody supports the theory of a draft in times of dire national emergency, assuming a dramatic enough definition of dire. Almost nobody actually wants to initiate it. Any dickering about who did what in creating the infrastructure for it is irrelevant. The issue is who you think would be more likely to cause the escalation of a national emergency to the scale where a draft is necessary.

In case of actual national emergency, they will have to turn people away from the recruiting offices. In case of manufactured emergency, it depends how the action is interpreted.

They'll turn some away, and have to draft others. That's always been true.

Yeah, it was certainly true in the only real "just" war we ever involved in: WWII. Young men certainly rushed to join the military after Pearl Harbour, but we still had to have a draft for all that.

Huh???

Huh, what? Are you saying WWII couldn't really be labeled a just war or are you saying other wars we were involved in were just? I was speaking of the modern era, btw. One could also say that the Civil War was a just war, and the war of the American Revolution was, as well. One might also argue that all wars are evil. Or were you disputing my comment on the draft? :confused:

Why do you argue only WWII?

Gotcha, well I hope I clarified with that amendment about the modern era. Should have put that in my original reply. ;)

My god people, you're almost as bad as.......Congress. :eek:

Nope...you didn't answer my question.

After 1900, the only "good" war (if you ever can call a war good) that the US has been engaged in was WWII, IMO. I'm pretty much a pacifist, so it takes something like being attacked by another NATION, plus the holocaust for me to feel a country is doing the right thing by going to war. I'm sure some, if not many, might disagree with me on this. I think having a parent be in the military and growing up with the constant fear that my Dad might not ever come home is probably responsible for at least some of my outlook in that regard.

The families of the people who died over there as a result of this guys politics will never forget.

Nor should the world forget the consequences to what happened.

If we forget we'll do it again.

Good thing they never forgot vietnam or or you could end up unilaterally invading some other country on ideological grounds only to have it all end in tears.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm here? :cool:

I'm a plain old straight talkin' type mari, no idea what you're talking about.
Reminds me of one of my favorite new words - sarchasm - the yawning divide between you and the person that didn't get it.

To me, it seems like the US has learned very little from the Vietnam fiasco. If we had, we wouldn't be in Iraq today.

Damn politics! Now I'm polar-ized. :blush:

Ahh..here we go I know this reflects how some of us here feel about last week.
They encourage any- and everyone to email them. Remember, this a time of healing!...or at least W Jr says so.

Stupidest....remark...ever....

It's a factual remark and only a jackass would call it stupid. George W. Bush is eliminating every check and balance in our government. When he appoints supreme court justices, he'll have NOTHING to prevent him from implementing his twisted religious agenda.

He has already murdered more than 100,000 innocent civilians, and gotten 1,100 Americans killed and counting. By the end of his term, there won't be much of America left to save.

That looks more like Liberace than Dubya.

How about this, as a less inflammatory version:

9/11 was the _enabler_ that defused most of the potential resistance to the Bush administration's agenda.

Stacked courts full of bible-thumpers and foreign policy that inflames friend and foe alike have the potential to be more damaging in the long run to what we currently know as America than a single terrorist attack, even one as severe as 9/11. This election set the table for both of those things to happen.

I haven't laughed so hard in a while.

How about this, as a less inflammatory version

vsp, can you server as translator for Radar from here on out? He makes an awful lot of good points, but always manages to null them out by shooting himself in the foot through unneeded insults.

What's the salary? That might be a full-time job.

Too late. Supply Side Jesus is doing a better job of conveying the ideals.

Too bad Al Franken is a moron. The cartoon depicts not a supply-side economy but a demand-based economy where economic growth is created through consumption.

As for the other aspects of the cartoon - just meaningless pot shots at a guy that I think most people would agree, religious or not, lived a pretty decent life.

Al Franken sure has come a long way from boiling cockroaches alive on SNL to his current status as a diety of the liberals.

Who are you referring to?

Jesus. I don't understand why they used Jesus as the main character when there are so many other folk who deserve that lampoon or, at least, should expect to get lampooned that way. Jesus is probably the last person I would have used - and not on religious grounds but on any grounds: comedy, irony, satire, ???

I'm not personally offended, I just don't get it.

It's a CARTOON. Relax.

And I love Al Franken :3eye:

The whole point is that it is not Jesus. The real Jesus even shows up to drive that point home, and there are no potshots at him. The potshots are at the people who throw aside the egalitarian and compassionate teachings of Jesus in favor of a philosophy that promotes giving to the wealthy in hopes that the money will trickle down, and then wrap their politics in the name of Jesus.

Why am I not surprised. Air America fan, too?

Aren't you too busy wrangling nuts and bashing other cultures to be making such inane comments?

OOOh. Hit a nerve.

I never found Al Franken funny, even in the real heydey of Saturday Night Live. By the time he was a regular cast member and doing the Stuart Smalley schtick, the show had become pretty much unwatchable. And when a 30 second bit that isn't funny becomes a movie that isn't funny, that's pretty much the death knell. He just didn't hear it, I guess.

Oh my. That's it. You heard it here first ... Al Franken is a comedic zombie!

Don't flatter yourself, sweetie (I know how much you love it when people call you sweetie!) :D

Oooops, did I hit a nerve? Sorry.


Oh my. That's it. Once again, wolf knows everything!

:D I'd hate to cut in here...but I thought it was well done no matter who the artist involved with it's creation was. Jesus being the main character seemed to be actually a necessity toon to drive a point home. You could use any number of main characters but to achieve the actual theme wasn't Jesus an obvious choice? Go back and try it with Superman........or Mickey Mouse with that squeaky voice......or maybe even you..... :D

Then again, I don't get New Yorker cartoons either.

I'm not up in arms about it - I was just trying to understand it. Thanks HM for at least taking the time to explain it.

[andyrooney] Dja ever notice how Al Franken's head is way to big for his body? Like he borrowed it from somebody twice his size but never gave it back?[/andyrooney]

LOL ah yes: the golden snip. That says to me: "Honey, I love you enough to not poison you with my sperm, have you push out an 8,9,10+ pound being from between your legs and try to raise and LIE to that being about the fucked up world we live in."

:mad2: :mad: :mad2: :mad:

Fuck that bullshit. NO ONE is restricting what I say and when/where *I* say it! He (Bush) can eat shit and die and go fuck himself for all I care.


Amen!!
:thumbsup: