I think we have a winner. Griff, I think 4-H might be the perfect fit for your girls.

I was in 4-H as a kid. It was a ton of fun. I enjoyed it so much I became a leader in my 4-H group when I got to old to stay as a member. The downside to 4-H is its the parents, etc who are leading the different projects so if you kid is interested in sewing for example and no one is a leader for that project either its too bad so sad or you gotta lead it yourself. The upside is there are often a dozen or more different projects a club has going on, and if there is something odd your kid is interested in but its not an "official" group, 4-H lets you make a group up. Example: In my 4-H group we had a pack goat project. All these kids who had pet goats taught them to carry a small pack and the kids would go on hikes and have the goats carry some water and such. It got the fat pet goats some exercise (as well as the kids) and was a fun thing for the kids to teach the goat to do. Wasn't an official project but the kids still got credit for it and seemed to have fun.

As a 4-Her, I decided that I was going to sew a pair of shorts and exhibit them at the fair. These shorts were soooo ugly - they were made with this fabric that said "Say No to Drugs" and one leg was wider than the other. I think I got a red ribbon - 2nd place - but it was definitely out of pity.

Ah I remember 4-H. The summer camp I went to and was a junior counselor for was all kinds of fun, with the exception of the one other kid who was trying to get in my pants the whole time. Fortunately, I was able to swim so I could stay in the deep end of the swimming pool while he could only try and coax me to the shallow end from behind 'The Line'...the sucker.

two thoughts:

a. Wouldnt award winning "just say no" handcrafted shorts fit well into Bruce's collection?

b. What are the 4 hs, again?

4-H came up while we were on the ride. We're chewing on that, thanks for the input. I'm still having trouble with Syc as an Eagle Scout.

I was a boyscout for years in a Mormon scout troop. I had a lot of fun camping, going on canoe trips, learning skills, earning badges, going on hikes, bike rides, etc. I hope my future kids get into it, although I'll try to find a secular troop.

i think i learned more about peer leadership, integrity, and self-respect in the boy scouts that anywhere else. and yes, I made eagle.

-sm

I believe its Head, Heart, Hands, and Health but its been a few years since I did anything with 4-H so I could be wrong.

I'm an eagle scout too ... I was a scout for seven years - longer than most because my scoutmaster let me join the troop early since my older brother was already a member.

I loved the experience - fantastic trips, more opportunities to get out and do great things than any other activity a teenager normally does. If they can keep politics out of the organization, it's a great place and I highly recommend the experience for boys. Of course if I were a parent, my concerns would be different, but I'm not, so this is what I think.

My brother was also allowed to join early because I was in it, but the leaders of another troop in the area complained to the district and had him kicked out until he got old enough. Jerks.

Here's something a little scary...

Scouting in the Islamic Community
Background

Scouting serves an important role in the Islamic community. Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, and Venturing crews operated by Islamic organizations can be found in major cities throughout the United States.

In 1982, the National Islamic Committee on Scouting (NICS) was formed by a group of concerned Muslims who represented many national Muslim organizations. Primarily, the NICS is responsible for formulating policies that govern the formation of Scouting in Islamic organizations and for guiding their cooperation with the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America. The NICS also establishes policies affecting the participation of Muslim men and women in Scouting through Islamic centers and mosques and advises the BSA National Council in all matters relating to Scouting among Muslims.

why is that scary? there are similar organizations for just about every religious group in scouting - Jewish, Hindu, Mormon, Methodist, etc.

Scouting is very sectarian, within a basic monotheism.

Yeah, but think of the recruiting possibilities...

Probably no better, and probably much worse, than a madrassa.