Well , Aliantha is relaxing . Right up to the 1970's , babies and children were forcibly removed from their Aborigine mothers . We are talking trucks with white men swerving through desert dust and stealing babies and children from screaming mothers . Why ? So that those babies and children could be put into special orphanages ( and sorry I nearly forgot ...made 'Christian' . Those children were raped and treated as slaves , and could not contact their families . Read Sally Morgan's book on the subject .

I have read it. In fact I used it for a paper at Uni.

There has been discussions on this board about Australian movies. One of them was 'Rabbit Proof Fence'. I'm sure you've seen it.

As I said, I'm quite happy to discuss these issues with you, but I'm not sure what the point is you're trying to make. I've agreed that the history of white mans residence in this country is shameful and continues to be so in many ways. What would you like me to do? Gather up my stuff and return to 'the motherland' from whence my ancestors were evicted for stealing a loaf of bread - metaphorically speaking.

J'accuse .
I accuse you of knowing , but not saying . I accuse you of being silent . How easy it is to say that you are happy to talk about all sorts of subjects , as long as they are not raised !
I accuse you of being a moral coward .

lol..that's just a joke. You don't know anything about me so you're speaking on a subject on which you are uninformed.

Start a discourse without the slurs and we'll go from there, but you're going to get the same response from me if all you want to do is shock others with less knowledge.

Again, the history is horrific. It's what we do with the future that makes the difference. Since I can't change the past, and I refuse to be ashamed of something I didn't do, I'd rather look towards making sure the same sins aren't repeated. This is my stance and my philosophy. If you think there's something wrong with it, then go ahead address it, but unless you have all the answers, don't try and suggest that I should in some way attempt to turn back the clock and change the past.

This is the problem that a lot of people in my generation face. Many acknowledge and would like to in some way 'make up' for what has gone before, and while that sentiment is admirable, any reasonable person must realize that there is no way the pain can be taken away. There's no way to turn back the clock and there's no way to bring back the people and families who've been murdered or torn asunder. What we can do is work towards finding a solution, but that is difficult when all some people wish to do is enflame the situation.

You're preaching to the converted.

Discuss the issue, or find some other horse to whip.

Lots of froth about the future .

Well shit, I might as well just blow my head off now then. That'll make up for at least one aboriginal or TI that was murdered. Not sure how much good it'll do my children though.

Well this is what happens when you respond to one of her threads, Ali. No point to it really, I advise against it.

Well by her reasoning UT, she needs me to educate you and other Cellar Dwellars on the history of Australia since colonisation. I just figured if any of you wanted to know I'd be happy to share what I know with you without bias, but I think Buddug just wants me to feel guilty, and I'm not going to.

I am delighted to see that my ideas go beyond Undertoad's conception of this site .

Undertoad should be happy too . We are breaking down boundaries !

Pardon me for saying so Buddug, but I think you're digging a pretty deep trench...just while we're into analogies etc.

But we are very far from being truly rigorous in the intellectual sense . I am working in that direction . I have to do it slowly .

And Aliantha , between you and me , Undertoad is pissed off about what I said about the American debt to China .

Just a point. Remember it was the British who declared this land 'Terra Nullius' and thereby claimed this land as British land, illegally, which is what has caused so many of the issues now, including the Mabo decision which in itself was the right decision and demonstrates that Australians - particularly the educated ones - recognize the transgressions of our British forebears and are willing to accept that there must be a better answer.

Now the question is finding the right answer so that we may all live in harmony. This of course is not easy, but it's something that many many white Australians as well as Indigenous Australians are committed to.

And as for GUILT , my darling Aliantha , if you stick around long enough I shall show you that guilt is selfish shit , made to blind us .
I refuse all forms of guilt .

Truth does not need guilt .