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-   -   Bush Expected to Veto 'Hate Crimes' Bill (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14054)

xoxoxoBruce 05-06-2007 11:28 PM

It's not a survey. It's reported crimes compiled by the department of justice. That's as close as you can get to the truth, which is impossible.
Them's the facts ma'am.

Aliantha 05-06-2007 11:31 PM

Well it'd be doubly interesting to do a study on why non-white women don't report crimes committed against them by white men then.

xoxoxoBruce 05-06-2007 11:34 PM

Can't help you there, I'm not a black women nor do I rape them.

Aliantha 05-06-2007 11:42 PM

Well I wouldn't have thought you were either, although this is the internet, so you just never know I guess. ;)

Happy Monkey 05-07-2007 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 341117)
But shouldn't the jury be making the calls, not elected DAs?

They do. People are often charged with multiple versions of the same crime, and the jury has to decide which, if any, to convict on.

Hyoi 05-07-2007 11:58 AM

I don't have strong convictions on this but I just don't see the point of making laws more complicated than they already are. It doesn't make sense. What am I missing here?.......xoxoxoBruce

Entropy, xo, entropy......the tendency towards a state of disorder. Attempts to simplify are futile. The introduction of logic to an argument is also unacceptable.

rkzenrage 05-07-2007 09:39 PM

One crime, one charge... pick one and stick with it.

Happy Monkey 05-08-2007 12:59 PM

That's not how it works, or how it ought to work.

In a fatal car accident, was it manslaughter, negligent homicide, or murder? How can you tell without hearing from the witnesses? Was the defendant drunk? Speeding? Did they know the victim? Was there bad blood between them? Was the car in good repair? Did the victim leap out in front of the car?

xoxoxoBruce 05-08-2007 01:18 PM

Or someone that just needed killin'.

Happy Monkey 05-08-2007 02:36 PM

Exactly- there's another motive-based crime: Justifiable Homicide.

duck_duck 05-09-2007 02:14 AM

The whole hate crimes idea is crazy. Give equal punishment for assault, murder etc. no matter the victim\'s minority status.

Ibby 05-09-2007 02:26 AM

So duck2, if someone put a burning cross on your lawn, and you were the only black family in your entire neighborhood... that should be punished as only littering, arson, whatever?

Again, this whole hate crimes thing is fucked up but definitely not without merit.

duck_duck 05-09-2007 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 341856)
So duck2, if someone put a burning cross on your lawn, and you were the only black family in your entire neighborhood... that should be punished as only littering, arson, whatever?

Again, this whole hate crimes thing is fucked up but definitely not without merit.

It should be arson like any other.

Ibby 05-09-2007 07:35 AM

That's a crock of stinking, rotting bullshit.

Some things are more than the sum of their parts.

Beestie 05-09-2007 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 341856)
So duck2, if someone put a burning cross on your lawn, and you were the only black family in your entire neighborhood... that should be punished as only littering, arson, whatever?

Again, this whole hate crimes thing is fucked up but definitely not without merit.

No, its without merit. The victim of a cross-burning, since that seems to be the poster child for the hate crime folk, has a civil remedy as well.

I mean, if a lawyer can sue a hard-working American family-owned small business for sixty-five farking million freaking dollars then I think the cross burnee should be able to get a little something. This whole hate-crime business is pure, unadulterated legislative bullcrap that will crumple like a wet dishrag when evaluated against the equal protection under the law provisions of the Constitution.

But Constitutional muster has little to do with quite a bit of the legislation being written for and by self-interested, short-sighted vote-whoring politicians who just can't kiss enough minority backside.


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