I'm suspending my self-imposed Politics ban for one post, because this is too delicious not to add to the conversation.

From a Slate story on the Romney bullying:

[levity]'walking in his loafers for a while'[/levity]

LOL. Sorry.

I disagree Infi. Some do, some don't. I don't believe anything is so set in stone when it comes to personal development, particularly when talking about the jump from kid to adult, and all that involves.

But without remorse, there can be no honest development, i believe.

Without at the least recognition that it is undesirable in oneself.

I've known a few who've changed a lot over the years. Angry, violent young men who became settled and calm middle aged men. But they did that for themselves.

One of them was a good friend, and not-quite-in-law relation via J. He went through some awful times and in the process put other people through the mill as well, including a couple of girlfriends. Lovely lad much ofthe time but turned into a total fuck periodically, and violent with it.

He really worked hard to not be the kind of person he hated and yet had somehow become. Clever man, but emotionally stupid when he was young.

I think possibly one saving grace with him, and possibly why it was something he was able to get to grips with, was that it was never that kind of secret, behind closed doors stuff. he had a temper problem, and anybody, including girlfriend might walk into the storm when he blew. But once he hit that ramp, he was a complete bastard. Cruel tongue on him at those times.

Honestly never thought he'd get himself sorted out, but he did. Cut out the drugs and drink, went back and finished his education, went and taught abroad, came back and started his teaching career here, became a headmaster in a London school and now I think works in the local education department or something.

Does particularly well with troubled teens.

two failed marriages though . Second was an amicable split and they're still good friends. Kids seem well happy.

Romney is socially inept. He isn't socially adept. He isn't a "personable person."

Would I hang around with someone like him? (money aside) no.

Have I seen and/or done shitty things to people as a teen? absolutely.
Do I regret them, yup.

Do I believe this is relevant? nope. YMMV

(FTR - Romney and the other boys apparently didn't know the other boy was gay)

Will this factor into which candidate I vote for? About as much as the fact that Obama ate dog as a child. I'm not comparing the two, just saying that neither is relevant.

Talking of dogs, what is this thing about rommers tying his dog up or something?

I'd say, especially given the increasing visibility of bullying problems in our country, and Romney's antipathy towards anti-bullying organizations, that a president who calls assault and battery pursuant to bullying a "prank" will be a terrible thing for bullied kids everywhere, and shows a fundamental flaw of character.

Yeah. It does show a singular lack of understanding.

I could have sworn we had a thread on it. During a 12-hour family road trip to Canada, Mitt - illegally, as was later pointed out - put Seamus, the family dog, atop their car in his kennel the whole way. Even after Seamus shat himself in apparent terror, leaving doggie diarrhea all over the back window, Mitt pulled over into a gas station, hosed off the car and dog, and carried on. Then he bragged about it later as proof he's good at dealing with crises.

Most do.

It's why you hear these kinds of things as being the fault of the woman for going back and thinking he'd changed.

All right up until he killed her.

But this isn't completely relevant, just a tangent. But no. You can't really be saying this. What is it that we are to defend and not defend?

We've come a long way baby. Stand by your man 'cause he might not be a beater anymore. Pfffft.

I knnow you don't really think that, I think you just like to disagree with just about everything I say. ;)

No, you just misunderstood my point, or I didnt make it clearly enough. I absolutely would advise any woman to leave a man who hit her, because the chances are he will do it again. the only circumstances in which I can see staying being even remotely a good prospect is if the guy has sought help (or in the case of some men who've been convicted of spousal abuse, been offered) to better understand why he abuses and how to stop.

What I was saying is that it is not inevitable that people won't change. But more importantly, I think change is likely when we're talking about youngsters.

The alternative is that we feel able to effectively write off 10 and 12 year olds as never gonna change, never gonna learn.

The dog rode in the crate many times. According to the family, the dog enjoyed riding in the crate.
The dog defecated while in the crate during the trip.
(nowhere was " in apparent terror" mentioned except on extremely partisan sites)
Nor was it mentioned that he "bragged" about it, except on those same sites.

Ibs, I really don't care for the man either, but you need to stop buying into the ridiculous slant from the sites you read.
I would consider your post to be the equivalent of some of the biased inf from the "other side."
Please don't blindly accept their exaggerations as gospel. Instead try to filter out the BS and absorb just the facts.
This really has very little to do with politics. There are far more important issues at hand and wasting time on this crap is counterproductive.


By the way - I'd like to red Nirvana's take on this.

Healthy dogs don't tend to diarrhea all over themselves except in fear, hence the "apparent terror". The "bragging" comes from the fact that the story was actually brought up BY romney, and his handling of the poop situation, the problem-solving he showed while taking care of it, was his point in saying it. Whether or not Seamus enjoyed it, it's still illegal to put a pet, in a crate, on top of a vehicle, in the state of Massachusetts. I think it's not a political issue, I agree - but it is a personal issue with Romney. His destructive and far-right policy positions are what makes him a bad choice for President. His personal history is what makes him of ill temperament for the position.